Free will?

[Inliytened1]

We think we possess free will but do we really?

The weightlifter benching 225 can drop the weights on his chest at any time and kill himself but does he? 

And if he does was that meant to be?

Now let's move to ignorance and suffering.  Often ignorance leads to deep suffering, but is this just the mind of the brilliant chess player thinking hundreds of moves ahead?

Will that suffering one day lead to deep wisdom and enlightenment?

Does that then mean the suffering was supposed to happen?

Arrogance vs humility: An arrogant man hurts the feelings of many...but as the years pass he becomes more conscious and finds humility.  

Was the pain his victims felt part of a greater good?  

Now this man finds deep humility and wisdom and then saves the life of a man drowning...where if he did not go thru this stage he would not save the man?

 Now bring this concept to the scale of humanity.......

Is their really free will or is free will an illusion?

 

 

 

[purerogue]

If you think that there is no free will why are you even discussing it, it is completely pointless topic , it would mean you can't even process information yourself, or do anything with it, or let go, anything ,you would be just watching and what ever conclusion you would come up would be already not made by your will, do you really do not understand how silly this debate is, how many times do we need to go trough this in forum.

 

To sum it up for you, there is no way to prove if there is free will, or not, you can't prove no free will and thats why you can't prove free will,only thing we can do is make idea of there being free will , or partial free will, but it will be nothing more then idea. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by purerogue

[Shadowraix]

This topic has been discussed many times before.

Free will = no free will. Just depends which side of the coin you are looking at.

The actual answer is both are true.

[Truth Addict]

@Inliytened1

There isn't a free will, but it seems like there is.

This topic is very important, if you know that there's no free will, how can you suffer?

If you know that it seems like there is a free will, how can you be a victim?

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Truth Addict said:

@Inliytened1

There isn't a free will, but it seems like there is.

This topic is very important, if you know that there's no free will, how can you suffer?

If you know that it seems like there is a free will, how can you be a victim?

No it is bad word play that can get you in trouble

-You think that you have no free will and everything that you do is supposed to happen, so you can fuck up your life big time by doing silly shit.

-You can start to think that you can't do nothing about your problems, because if they will get fixed, it will happen on its own. 

-You can't know, you can only have belief,believing that there is no free will does not end your suffering, actually I am quite sure that you will bring way more suffering to you, but I guess we could argue about it.

 

[Truth Addict]

@purerogue

Then why am I very happy with my life?

[purerogue]

8 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@purerogue

Then why am I very happy with my life?

If there is no free will then you can't really believe , or not believe something, it is simply your attribute that you did not chose, so your whole post makes 0 sense, 

Also there is huge difference , how and when you apply surrendering , which is not the same as having no free, I am very happy too , but I believe in free will , difference is that I believe in something that I have control of, not believe that  I have control of something that I can't have control of to begin with. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by purerogue

[Truth Addict]

1 minute ago, purerogue said:

If there is no free will then you can't even really believe , or not believe something, it is simply your attribute that you did not chose, so your whole post makes 0 sense, 

Okay, first of all let's not create a debate here and rape this thread.

It's true, I didn't choose to believe or not believe anything, but this is completely irrelevant to being able to believe or not.

Free will is an illusion, but the illusion seems real. That's why it's called an illusion in the first place, because it 'seems' real.

The post I created did not come from me, it had to appear, out of nowhere.

And whether it makes sense or not, it's not really up to me or you or anyone else.

9 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Also there is huge difference , how and when you apply surrendering , which is not the same as having no free, I am very happy too , but I believe in free will , difference is that I believe in something that I have control of, not believe that  I have control of something that I can't have control of to begin with. 

You can believe in free will and be happy, I didn't say you can't.

But it will be a neurotic kind of happiness. Or maybe I'm wrong about this.

You claim that my word play will cause suffering, I tell you that it doesn't.

At first, you will suffer, the ego-mind does not like to lose control, but eventually you will become free.

I don't want to keep going with this debate, so I won't reply again, but if you have anything to add, please feel free to share, I'm all ears.

Thank you.

[purerogue]

Listen , it is all good that it worked out for you ,you applied letting go at right time , telling this no free belief of yours  to someone who is not ready to integrate it will be devastating and I am telling again, maybe read my post few more times and you will understand why you make 0 sense, or you are simply talking about partial free will, which I would agree with, also it is illusion of being ego, this person , not illusion of free will, idk where you read about there being no free will and who was elaborate enough to explain how he has no free will, but none of teachings I know talks about there being no free will, but rather mechanic that make it partial mix of both.

 

[Leo Gura]

There is no egoic free will, but there is God's infinite Will, and you are God. So it goes full-circle.

Free will vs no-free-will is a duality.

In practice your will is a sliver of God's infinite Will, just like your intelligence is a sliver of God's infinite Intellignece. By becoming more God-like you get more will and more intelligence.

[mandyjw]

Free will in an illusion. No free will is also an illusion. 

[now is forever]

32 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Free will in an illusion. No free will is also an illusion. 

your free will brought you the illusion. you can’t decide to be influenced but you can decide what will influence you.

„you are it but you are not it“. (not sure who said that i guess @Nahm did, sounds so much like something nahm would say)

Edited April 17, 2019 by now is forever

[Paul92]

I don't think we have free will. But people commit suicide. So God is killing itself? Hmm.

[Nahm]

@now is forever The patterns and repetitions are appearance of potentiality in actuality. To a sleeper, a cup is just a cup.  

[now is forever]

@Nahm thank you nahm, you are a great tea pot! ?

[tecladocasio]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

By becoming more God-like you get more will and more intelligence.

@Leo Gura Seriously , how can you ''become more'' something that you already are ? You are very confuse about the ego(you) and God .

[Nahm]

@now is forever “Short & stout”! Lol 

 

[LastThursday]

There is no question that 'stuff happens' (God's will). But does it still happen whether you 'will it' or not? (Ego's will).

It's a matter of the ever present now. As soon as something happens, it's gone.

We can mentally stretch the event so that the happening seems to 'last a while'. By doing this we can then assign agency to the event, and say we had 'free will'. But was the event inside time at all? I'd say not (as time doesn't exist). So it was all just in the mind and as such we don't have 'free will'.

In a sense, because there is no time, there is nothing happening at all. Yes, it hurts my head...

[Inliytened1]

Thanks for the thoughts on this thread guys.

What i have found in my 48 years is that yes free will is a very sneaky illusion.  More to what Truthaddict stated.  It appears that we have free will because when we make a decision we actually feel and think like we are making it.  But in reality there is something bigger going on - to Leo's point.

I know this topic has been discussed many times before but it was a thing i discovered much later in my spiritual work.  It was a sneaky one for me.

You could make that argument that yeah there is free will because someone is going to see this thread and say fuck that i know there is a free will...in fact i'm going to prove that there is by driving my fucking car off a cliff.  And so he does..and bye bye him.

But who was thinking that...who was really thinking that?   See what i mean?  Wasn't that the Will with a capital W?

Again goes back to my earlier post  -  his death leading to some greater good down the line so many moves ahead that our finite minds can't even fathom it?

 

 

[youngshinzen]

@Leo Gura

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no egoic free will, but there is God's infinite Will, and you are God. So it goes full-circle.

Free will vs no-free-will is a duality.

In practice your will is a sliver of God's infinite Will, just like your intelligence is a sliver of God's infinite Intellignece. By becoming more God-like you get more will and more intelligence.

I had an enlightenment experience a few years ago that showed me that there is a reason for everything. It is a causal chain to infinity and everything is started by one source. It fits to what you said on your live trip video: "It's perfectly out of control." and your new retreat video.

For me the insight was: None of the things I perceive are coming from me, because there's a (one) reason for everything I perceive. Free will means there is no reason for my decision.

Is how I interpret it contrary to what you said above or am I missing something?