Great Interview w/Ken Wilber on Ego Development

[kieranperez]

Great talk on ego development, combining spirituality and psychotherapy as one unitary Integral process, and how ego development and spiritual development are really the same. Great stuff. Give a listen  

[noselfnofun]

This is very helpful and practical, thank you  

[David Hammond]

@kieranperez wilber doesn't know what he's talking about 

[molosku]

3 hours ago, David Hammond said:

@kieranperez wilber doesn't know what he's talking about 

And that is becaaaause...? 

[David Hammond]

@molosku He thinks ego development is akin to strengthening the witness. The ego is identification with thought, so how can strengthening the witness = a bigger ego? 

Yes the witness is the last part of the I to go before complete transcendence, it's still I, but it's not "ego".

I want what some of ken is smoking because he's gone for sure!

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

@molosku He thinks ego development is akin to strengthening the witness. The ego is identification with thought, so how can strengthening the witness = a bigger ego? 

Yes the witness is the last part of the I to go before complete transcendence, it's still I, but it's not "ego".

I want what some of ken is smoking because he's gone for sure!

It is all just matter of perspective, I can see both points of view and they both make sense in their own way, you are picking on his way of delivering message, when you both mean the same. 

[David Hammond]

32 minutes ago, purerogue said:

It is all just matter of perspective, I can see both points of view and they both make sense in their own way, you are picking on his way of delivering message, when you both mean the same. 

I don't think he does understand enlightenment. His integral model isn't about realization. Psychotherapy has absolutely nothing to do with enlightenment. Psychotherapy is a dogma, it never came from consciousness. That's not to say he hasn't helped people, but he can't help a person become realized. He even says so himself.

Edited April 16, 2019 by David Hammond

[kieranperez]

@David Hammond your ignorance and arrogance is nauseating

Edited April 16, 2019 by kieranperez

[David Hammond]

13 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@David Hammond your ignorance and arrogance is nauseating

No need to get personal. That's a sign of ignorance and arrogance.

[David Hammond]

36 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@David Hammond your ignorance and arrogance is nauseating

Have you made ken wilber your appeal to authority rather than relying on your own intuition?

Why such a scathing attack on someone who critizices your masters life work?

 

[kieranperez]

21 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

No need to get personal. That's a sign of ignorance and arrogance.

All your down is projecting your own lack of introspection and deluding yourself. You’re the only one your fooling. I’d put money down you haven’t read Wilber’s books. Hell, I’d even bet you didn’t even listen to the interview. Even if you have though, so long as you cling to your nondual elitist fantasies and beliefs (and what you’re regurgitating are beliefs and fantasies. Not going to play coy with your nonsense) you’re not in a position to learn anything. Empty your cup. 

[kieranperez]

10 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

Have you made ken wilber your appeal to authority rather than relying on your own intuition?

Why such a scathing attack on someone who critizices your masters life work?

 

That’s your projection right there. You actually think I even have some sort of master LOL. 

What you’re calling “intuition” in this case is just your egoic biases because your little character likes to stroked with nondual talk and fantasies. 

Again, you’re only deluding yourself and projecting your stuff on me. I have no master. I am no master. 

I’m DIRECT. I have no emotional barring on you. I don’t know you. You don’t know me. If you don’t want to learn, your problem at the end of the day (in the end it’s the worlds problem but that’s another rabbit hole). I’m direct because a lot of you nondual keyboard warriors spout a lot of zen devilry on here and its nauseating and yeah I don’t play coy that much when I see that. 

But of course, you spout your nonsense and then I call you out on it and then you try to play the nondual cool front like I’m trying to bash you or something and that you’re above such “antics”. I’m sure you’re a nice guy who means well. I’m calling out your behavior. I’m calling your fantasies and beliefs and ignprance. It has nothing to do with you. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by kieranperez

[David Hammond]

9 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

All your down is projecting your own lack of introspection and deluding yourself. You’re the only one your fooling. I’d put money down you haven’t read Wilber’s books. Hell, I’d even bet you didn’t even listen to the interview. Even if you have though, so long as you cling to your nondual elitist fantasies and beliefs (and what you’re regurgitating are beliefs and fantasies. Not going to play coy with your nonsense) you’re not in a position to learn anything. Empty your cup. 

Ok. Let's talk about this. I sense a charge in you.

Why do you feel so strongly about some random guy on the internet who you have never met, never will meet, have no interest in, have no desire to become friends with...?

Why you feel so strongly? 

[kieranperez]

Just now, David Hammond said:

I sense

Projection

[David Hammond]

3 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

That’s your projection right there. You actually think I even have some sort of master LOL. 

What you’re calling “intuition” in this case is just your egoic biases because your little character likes to stroked with nondual talk and fantasies. 

Again, you’re only deluding yourself and projecting your stuff on me. I have no master. I am no master. 

I’m DIRECT. I have no emotional barring on you. I don’t know you. You don’t know me. If you don’t want to learn, your problem at the end of the day (in the end it’s the worlds problem but that’s another rabbit hole). I’m direct because a lot of you nondual keyboard warriors spout a lot of zen devilry on here and its nauseating and yeah I don’t play coy that much when I see that. 

But of course, you spout your nonsense and then I call you out on it and then you try to play the nondual cool front like I’m trying to bash you or something and that you’re above such “antics”. I’m sure you’re a nice guy who means well. I’m calling out your behavior. I’m calling your fantasies and beliefs and ignprance. It has nothing to do with you. 

Pinning this in case you decide to edit it later.

[kieranperez]

Nondual keyboard warriors infest another post LOL...

I’m out ✌?

[David Hammond]

5 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

That’s your projection right there. You actually think I even have some sort of master LOL. 

What you’re calling “intuition” in this case is just your egoic biases because your little character likes to stroked with nondual talk and fantasies. 

Again, you’re only deluding yourself and projecting your stuff on me. I have no master. I am no master. 

I’m DIRECT. I have no emotional barring on you. I don’t know you. You don’t know me. If you don’t want to learn, your problem at the end of the day (in the end it’s the worlds problem but that’s another rabbit hole). I’m direct because a lot of you nondual keyboard warriors spout a lot of zen devilry on here and its nauseating and yeah I don’t play coy that much when I see that. 

But of course, you spout your nonsense and then I call you out on it and then you try to play the nondual cool front like I’m trying to bash you or something and that you’re above such “antics”. I’m sure you’re a nice guy who means well. I’m calling out your behavior. I’m calling your fantasies and beliefs and ignprance. It has nothing to do with you. 

 

3 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Projection

Ah, ok I'm projecting my own charged rage onto you. You're as cool as a cucumber and I'm the one making personal attacks...

I see it now! Thank you for making me aware of my own repressed emotions.

[David Hammond]

8 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

That’s your projection right there. You actually think I even have some sort of master LOL. 

What you’re calling “intuition” in this case is just your egoic biases because your little character likes to stroked with nondual talk and fantasies. 

Again, you’re only deluding yourself and projecting your stuff on me. I have no master. I am no master. 

I’m DIRECT. I have no emotional barring on you. I don’t know you. You don’t know me. If you don’t want to learn, your problem at the end of the day (in the end it’s the worlds problem but that’s another rabbit hole). I’m direct because a lot of you nondual keyboard warriors spout a lot of zen devilry on here and its nauseating and yeah I don’t play coy that much when I see that. 

But of course, you spout your nonsense and then I call you out on it and then you try to play the nondual cool front like I’m trying to bash you or something and that you’re above such “antics”. I’m sure you’re a nice guy who means well. I’m calling out your behavior. I’m calling your fantasies and beliefs and ignprance. It has nothing to do with you. 

Can you not see that this is all conditioned thinking? I'm not aware of this, it's personal to you because I have no idea what you're talking about. 

Let me ask you another question. Can you confirm that this is what everyone else sees and is bothered by it?

If so, then you have the truth. 

If not, then you are thinking but not aware that you are thinking.

 

[David Hammond]

21 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Empty your cup. 

Empty my cup and learn what? Learn kieranpersez worldview and conform to it?  will that make you like me better?  We can all affirm each other's worldviews so we can avoid the discomfort of awakening. Wouldn't that be nicer for everyone? I become a ken wilber fan boy just so you can like me and I can be in your actualized.org gang?

 

 

 

[David Hammond]

@kieranperez I have no Ill will toward ken. I've listened to the entire audio. Its a excerpt from kosmic consciousness. I downloaded it in 2010.

It's just that his work is garbage, nobody agrees with it. Not in enlightenment circles. 

But his ideas are good for introducing other practices like anger management and yoga to assist with a spiritual practice. But to assert that psychotherapy is going to strngethen the witness is poposterous. 

Nobody listens to him. And that's not an appeal to popularity, it's just that enlightened people know he's not realized.