Leo is a hardcase not enlightened

[OmniYoga]

well explained, I coudn't resist to think - he talks about Leo

and now go back to straight walking, folks

Edited April 14, 2019 by OmniYoga

[FoxFoxFox]

Well, 90% of the time, "knowing" is what gets people in trouble in this forum. Incessant pursuit of logical knowing as opposed to actual knowing which is the only thing that is there is anyways. 

[Shadowraix]

Mental scaffolding. 

[David Hammond]

1 hour ago, FoxFoxFox said:

Well, 90% of the time, "knowing" is what gets people in trouble in this forum. Incessant pursuit of logical knowing as opposed to actual knowing which is the only thing that is there is anyways. 

I agree. What I see is a ton of spiritual "culture" conditioning. Spiritual egos. I read one post yesterday talking about "getting the understanding of non duality" and I was like, wtf? The mind will never understand non duality. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by David Hammond

[mandyjw]

"Relentlessly improve, let's see where it gets you", says Sadhguru, that's the part Leo teaches you to do extremely well.

As he says you have to let go of your idea of enlightenment. No teacher can give you the truth, everyone has a different way of pointing at the moon. They point in different directions at different times. The moon moves around. 

[mandyjw]

46 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

I agree. What I see is a ton of spiritual "culture" conditioning. Spiritual egos. I read one post yesterday talking about "getting the understanding of non duality" and I was like, wtf? The mind will never understand non duality. 

The mind can never understand anything else either. It's fun to try though, isn't it? 

[FoxFoxFox]

@mandyjw If people just stopped clinging to their ideas of enlightenment and instead looked into their own direct experience, progress would be ten times faster. 

[mandyjw]

@FoxFoxFox Another trick is looking at the ideas that don't resonate with you with an open mind. That nauseous feeling you get when you do it is your ego slowly dying. 

[FoxFoxFox]

@mandyjw Nauseous feeling? Can you elaborate? 

I know there is some great emphasis on the ego needing to die for the self to be recognized but I humbly disagree. The ego does not exist to begin with.

[mandyjw]

11 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@mandyjw Nauseous feeling? Can you elaborate? 

I know there is some great emphasis on the ego needing to die for the self to be recognized but I humbly disagree. The ego does not exist to begin with.

You are right, but we don't disagree. It's just another way to say the same thing. 

My favorite teacher I got too attached to was Eckhart Tolle. I thought Osho was possessed. Opening my mind up to Osho teaching something different but also necessary, another way to say the same thing... that changed everything. I didn't have to listen for hours upon hours to get the message, I got the message like a knife to the heart. Eckhart's message felt like hours/years of sitting out in the sun, feeling its warmth. It was lovely and I thought it was everything but it wasn't. It wasn't enough. I was attached. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by mandyjw

[Hellspeed]

Go home folks. 

[FoxFoxFox]

@mandyjw Yeah I get what you mean. Eckhart is a mystery to me. He makes complete sense 50% of the time, and is totally of the mark the rest. All this being in he 'now' business is him building up this whole philosophy on a simple aid from the scriptures. Enlightenment really doesn't have anything to do with time, the content of one's experience and the mind. Its just a simple, direct recognition of being.

I remember we talked about a similar topic before. I think you told me that life itself is enlightenment and that one should be 100% involved with it (of course I'm greatly paraphrasing). And I said that as long as there is an "I" in the picture then that's not it. How do you feel about that now?

[mandyjw]

@FoxFoxFox I still feel the same way I guess. Nothing is what I expected it to be. I still have an ego and still battle with self interest. I still have knowledge and desires in life but they are no longer my own. They seem more like a gift rather than a transgression or a desire that comes out of lack. I still have a certain perspective, and only by 100% owning my perspective and limitations, being too heart led and not very smart, etc, I have found out how to look to others for what I do not have. And they give it freely. Because they are me. It's not wrong for me to eat, to destroy things to live because nothing can ever be destroyed. It's not wrong for me to want to build, to want to acquire, because the time will come when I've built will satisfy the law of entropy. it's all perfect. It's all beautiful. I've been put in my place. I've been constrained and limited. I accepted it. It feels like freedom. It's all done out of love. 

I'm listening to Leo's new video right now. He said that people don't want to go down the rabbit hole. They don't want to have the boundary between their inner mind and outer world fall apart. That's what it feels like has happened to me. Everything is true in the moment. It's not what I thought it would be when i did this work. it's more like one of my childhood fantasies come to life. Only now i'm an adult and it's terrifying until I remember to quiet my mind. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by mandyjw

[FoxFoxFox]

@mandyjw Thanks for sharing. It's interesting that you say "I still have an ego". Does that mean there are two selves? There cannot be two selves. You are it, no? 

[mandyjw]

@FoxFoxFox I am it. But I can still forget. When I forget, that's ego. Ego is an illusion created when you forget who you are. All that really changed is the intensity with which I am it and the amount of time I am. But I still definitely fall back into my old self sometimes. It would be really dangerous for me and everyone around me if I couldn't separate the two. 

[FoxFoxFox]

@mandyjw Is it? Are you dangerous when you are asleep?

[whoareyou]

@OmniYoga You are 100% spot on. Exactly what I have been saying all along - Leo is trapped in the seeking, and there are thousands of people just like him. The problem is that a lot of people follow LEO dogmatically and don't bother to question what he says - even though he specifically stated to not do so. He encourages seeking (because he is in seeker mode himself) and in turn a lot of people do the same.

Dropping the seeking can be extremely difficult process - it would mean that those people have wasted years on chasing their own tail and would be a huge blow to their "spiritual" EGO. 

The question is, how long more would it take for LEO to realize this? And after this realization, how would his teachings evolve?

 

[mandyjw]

@FoxFoxFox Yes. 

[Jack Walter Leon]

@whoareyou Yes, you are right.

I'm not trying to hate on Leo but in my opinion he has evolved a big spiritual ego. If one reads his comments here on the forum, it gets very clear that he somehow feels superior now especially after his last enlightenment experiences. It almost seems as if it is not allowed to question or even criticize his insights. I've noticed many times that he does not respond correctly to some questions and prefers to teach people and reproaches them that they can not understand him because of their ego that stands in their way. One time he even made fun of some guy, laughed at him and called him a sheep. Noone except for him personally knows what he's been through but that doesn't sound like a wise man to me.

[David Hammond]

@Jack Walter Leon It depends on the context. If Leo calls a person a name to defend his position then it can be said that he is speaking from ego.

You can say things about others from a place of ego or from a place of genuine freedom. 

An enlightened person is not wrong when he calls the majority of people "crazy" because in a way they are. It's when we start using insults because we want or expect something from another, then we are coming from ego. 

Do I think Leo is genuinely enlightened? It's hard to tell to be honest. One thing I know is his teaching is not conventional or classic enlightenment. So by that standard I would he is delusional because he talks about degrees of enlightenment and has fantasy models like Zen devilry. There is no teaching in existence that talks about these things..

Edited April 14, 2019 by David Hammond