Thank you forum but its time for me to go

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Serotoninluv They’d entangle it. 

Entangle what?

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

their message and insights

The quite is for the seekers. Some entangle a message, and often it takes a bit before someone notices they did. This is crazytown, admittedly, btw. 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

The quite is for the seekers. 

If a seeker had earplugs in their ears and a blindfold on. Would a wise teacher be aware of this and communicate differently with this person than a person that could hear and see the teacher?

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv It’s helpful if a seeker thinks it’s helpful. A seeker with three kids can meditate in construction sites with ease, enjoying that quiet. 

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Serotoninluv It’s helpful if a seeker thinks it’s helpful.

If a deaf and blind person came to a teacher for help, would it be helpful for the teacher to be aware he is deaf and blind?  And take that into consideration as she communicates with him? It would seem spoken language would not be the best way to transmit a message in this situation. Using only a verbal communication mode here would likely be inefficient and cause confusion and frustration with everyone involved. It seems it would interfere with connecting on emotional and empathic channels. 

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv What would they need help with? What’s an example of what they’d say? (This just got interesting btw, awesome ??)

[mandyjw]

19 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Serotoninluv It’s helpful if a seeker thinks it’s helpful. A seeker with three kids can meditate in construction sites with ease, enjoying that quiet. 

@Nahm I had a dental cleaning recently. God, it felt like heaven. Laying back able to relax and not having to jump up every 2 minutes to deal with some little tantrum or disaster. 

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv People don't want to go to a doctor and be seen as an illness or a problem. They want to be seen as a whole person. 

[Nahm]

@mandyjw ?♥️ So true.        ...imaging what meditation would be like if I was deaf and blind. Talk about “industrial strength”!

[Mu_]

@Aakash happy to get to know you. Glad you found something in what you were looking for. I’d like to stay in touch if your interested. Check in here in a few months. 

I think you’ll do just find getting those basics taken care of. Perhaps you’ll find that reveals more then you were expecting. I know when I left spirituality behind for years that it found me in ways that I had given up on on trying to figure out and solve priorly. 

Good adventures to you. 

[Forestluv]

@Nahm

It could be any situation. Let’s say someone came to a teacher and told the teacher they recently got divorced and they haven’t been able to date again. They feel ugly and not good enough. 

The teacher may then ask some questions about what the experience feels like - this could allow the person to get out of thought stories and into touch with their emotions. Yet there is no response from the other person. The teacher may try a different approach and ask the person to let go of thoughts and bring their attention to their breath. There is still no response and there seems to be a disconnect. The two are not connecting on an intellectual, emotional or empathic level. The teacher may sense that the student is so caught up in their own thought stories that he cannot hear her. The teacher may sense that the student is unwilling to listen to her words and is closed to her words. This teacher is not in tune with dynamics in the moment. Her empathetic and intuitive body modes are not picking up what is actual in the moment. This happens to “me” a lot and it is often due to very subtle self and knowledge filters. Rather than nothing, there is a something present that is filtering and distorting the actual energetics, The closer, I get to nothing, the greater chance of getting in tune with oneness occurs. In particular, blocks and separation to oneness are often revealed.

In the above deaf-blind person, I could talk about oneness, separation, thoughts, trauma, gene expression, improper neuronal pruning, the illusionary construct of self, getting in touch with feelings - for an hour and it would do no good. Confusion may arise. If I stay in whatever paradigm I’m in, I won’t be open to the actuality of the moment. I could be in a neuroscience, psychology, metaphysics or spiritual paradigm. I could bust out some sweet deep teachings of Alan Watts, Leo, Sadguru, Einstein, Spiral Dynamics or Maslow. None of it matters because none if it’s right here. The actuality of Now is going through a filter of previous memories, thoughts, knowledge, beliefs etc. It can be extremely subtle ime. And it’s really easy to get immersed into. 

If one becomes nothing, all wisdom is possible and actuality reveals itself (although I would say previous technical learnings can be helpful in an aspect of this). . . . In this case the teacher evaporates. There are no more stories and filters of trauma, altered dopamine signaling, vibrational frequencies and so on altering the pure essence of now. All that stuff are subtle attachments. In that emptiness the insight for the teacher may arise - what is actual: in this case the teacher becomes aware that the person is deaf and blind. In other cases, something else will reveal itself. This opens up a whole new world of connection and communication with the person. From the emptiness, more insights will arise from the teacher. Whatever arises. The emptiness is now the “source” and is not going through filters built over time through previous leanings, knowledge and story attachments - these all distort actuality into a new story. Rather, what arises is totally fresh and new. It is perceived with clarity by the teacher because the teacher is both everything and nothing, rather than personal experience and knowledge filters. Actuality is a clear crystal of everything and nothing. It is pure openness. Then, sensations and ideas may arise in the moment. Stuff about neuroscience, Reiki, vibrational frequencies, empathy, philosophy, laughter, tears. Who knows? Love will express itself without filters and all bets are off at that point. True love will blossom. There is both oneness and connection of separateness. The octopus and all it’s tentacles. 

Then again who knows? Maybe a realization will arise that this is not true, partially true or both true and false depending on context and perspective. Who knows if these ideas will be relevant in an hour. Perhaps they are helpful and filterless now, yet tomorrow I may sit with a student and the attachment to this model may become a new filter that I need to let it go to return to the clear crystal. Then maybe ideas from Hick’s will arise from the emptiness and express itself as love in the moment and there will be emotional and empathetic connection. Maybe ideas from krishnamurti, structural images of the prefrontal cortex, psychedelic memories or strong body sensations of empathic energy will arise in the moment..  I have no idea what will arise. This awakening thing has gotten so bizarre, all bets are off. I’m going along with this crazy ass magical ride. . . 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

@Serotoninluv People don't want to go to a doctor and be seen as an illness or a problem. They want to be seen as a whole person. 

Yes, that is exactly the point I’m trying to make. If a person has filters in their mind, they will not be nothing/emptiness. Actuality will pass through filters and distort actuality. It will fragment the wholeness of the “other” person. There are many different firms of filters - including spiritual filters. For me, these are particularly sneaky and deceiving because they sound so spiritual, good, peaceful and lovey in my mind-body. As well, they can get reinforced by others around me - telling me how wonderful my spiritual filters are. Yet they will still cause fragmentation of the wholeness of reality.

At the human level of connection, I do not experience other humans as an illness or problem. These are just terms that can be used in a practical sense. For example, last week a student with bi-polar came to my office to discuss problems. I don’t see his-mind body as being ill because “normal” is a myth. However, he came to my office to discuss what he sees as problems, in part due to his bi-polar condition. Here, I would not use the term “illness” - that would cause a major wedge of separation. I also shied away from the term “problem” because I could sense he had very strong emotional attachments and “problem” was a symbolic word for him involved with emotional attachment and identification. I observed that when I used terms like “difficulties”, “challenges” and “set backs”, his stories relaxed and we were able to connect on an emotional channel.

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluv?

 

[Forestluv]

@DrewNows Yes. Separation and lack of oneness can be humorous. I’ve been in disconnected miscommunication dynamics that went into truly bizarre zones. Both of us trying to communicate the simplest of ideas and the other person totally not getting it. Each person can be baffled. It can be frustrating, yet bizarrely humorous as well. Humans can be strange creatures indeed.

 

[DrewNows]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@DrewNows Yes. Separation and lack of oneness can be humorous. I’ve been in disconnected miscommunication dynamics that went into truly bizarre zones. Both of us trying to communicate the simplest of ideas and the other person totally not getting it. Each person can be baffled. It can be frustrating, yet bizarrely humorous as well. Humans can be strange creatures indeed.

 

Heard this quote from someone and really like it “seek first to understand before being understood” 

all anyone including spiritual teachers can do is offer you a new perspective to consider, reflect on, and ultimately approach your circumstances with a new attitude (openness) if that is what the you really want, if not, maybe someone else listening will (if it’s a video) apply the seemingly counterintuitive outlook to form a needed personal idea 

personally I don’t feel making an emotional connection is necessary always especially if the teacher is already praised/worshipped/or simply trusted haha 

[Forestluv]

@DrewNows Yes. I’ve found understanding and deconstructing my “self” and the underlying psychological dynamics in my own mind to be essential for understanding other selfs.

Also, thank you for the point about emotional connections. Sometimes establishing emotional connections  can be counter-productive and even unhealthy. For example, when a female student enters my office, there are certain emotional connections that are off-limits and we aint gonna go there.

Personal boundaries can be unhealthy or healthy, depending on context.

[DrewNows]

35 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

For example, when a female student enters my office, there are certain emotional connections that are off-limits and we aint gonna go there.

? unless you’re professor Moody in “Californiacation” and every word that rolls off your tongue is so smooth every woman is throwing themselves at you.

He goes into interactions without a specific intention. I think this is very powerful in providing authenticity in a dynamic hahaha

 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

 I have no idea what will arise. This awakening thing has gotten so bizarre, all bets are off. I’m going along with this crazy ass magical ride

Perfect. Beautiful and perfect. 

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Perfect. Beautiful and perfect. 

That whole thought story led to a one-liner of truth?! 

Perhaps my mind likes to take the scenic route at times 

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv Oh, sorry man. Lol.   There weren’t any questions or prompts.  If I was a teacher, and a deaf blind person came to me, asking for anything, I would help as best I could. I know the first thing I’d do is stop pretending I was a teacher, so I no longer saw them as a student. That way I would already know what they want, and I’d happily give it, for as long as I’m breathing I will be doing that, and maybe even after.