What Are The Known Spiral Dynamics Stages past Stage Teal

[Joseph Maynor]

Please identify, list, and describe these stages to extent that you can.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[TheAvatarState]

As I understand it, full embodiment of Turquoise is basically a full-blown Yogi/Sage/Mystic. Not really sure what else you could want. Perhaps further stages of enlightenment are best modeled using a different system, not SD. SD is mainly for mapping social development of the collective, and we're probably centuries away from an entire culture embodying even Turquoise. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Joseph Maynor I am not sure anymore if I understand the stages correctly.

There are state-stages which are stages of themselves and the growth stages of development which for me include the multiple intelligence(especially including the cognitive perspective-taking aspect) theory, including things like values which is mapped in spiral dynamics. So, I want to differentiate these two aspects. Or one could look at them as two separate structures of development. State stages are independent of structure stages, yet can be reached as a permanent, yet are interpreted through the lens of one's growth stage development. So, a blue experience of a non-dual experience would be most likely interpreted as mythic literal. God did do this to me. There is only one god he told me xyz. God gave me this book and told me to create this religion, all other religions are false, if they don't believe in one god. etc. I bet there are better examples.

I can write down how it is mapped out, but the only reference point I have is the ones I chiseled for myself and the ones I am copying from the book now.





Preface/Preliminary remark

Vision-Logic (which includes teal and turquoise)" Not very important for those not familiar.
Moral span is considered as what is deemed worthy of moral consideration.

Above teal (turquoise)
World view: cross-paradigmatic, developmentalism as a world process (integralism)
Moral span: all humans without exception.  Seeing not only hierarchies but healthy hierarchies and in total holarchies. Detects harmonics, mystical forces, pervasive flow states that permeate any organization. Unites feeling with knowledge. Universal order in a living conscious fashion instead of a blue or green external rule and group orientation. Holding up the mirror to society. 

Values: global order and renewal. Experiences the wholeness of experience through mind an spirit.
Self-identity + What is important: Highly aware of the complexity of meaning-making, systemic interactions, and dynamic processes. Seeks personal and spiritual transformation and supports others in their life quests; creates events that become mythical and reframe the meaning of situations. may understand “ego” as a “central processing unit” that actively creates a sense of identity; increasingly sensitive to the continuous “re-storying” of who one is; may recognize ego as most serious threat to future growth; continually attend to interaction among thought, action, feeling, and perception as well as influences from and effects on individuals, institutions, history and culture; treat time and events as symbolic, analogical, metaphorical (not merely linear, digital, literal); may feel rarely understood in their complexity by others.

Reframes turns inside out, upside-down, clowning, holding up a mirror to society. often works behind the scenes.

Affect levels: world-centric altruism

teal-centered (yellow)
Integrates multiple contexts, paradigmatic.
Moral span all humans without exception. (counts also for green in total, green, yellow, turquoise).

Self-identity + what is important: Life is a kaleidoscope of natural hierarchies (holarchies which include heterarchies). Flexibility, spontaneity, and functionality have the highest priority. Differences and pluralities can be integrated into interdependent flows (integration and disintegration instead of association and dissociation IMO! see politics especially germans diversity of parties in context with the true "meaning" of pluralism and dissemination of power) Egalitarianism is complemented with natural degrees of excellence where appropriate. Knowledge and competence should supersede, rank, power, status or the group! (yes please). World order is a result of the existence of different levels of reality (memes) and the inevitable patterns of moving up and down the dynamic spiral.  Good governance facilitates the emergence of entities through the levels of increasing complexity (nested hierarchy). Comprehends multiple interconnected systems of relationships and processes; able to deal with conflicting needs and duties in constantly shifting contexts; recognizes the need for autonomy while parts of a system are interdependent; recognizes higher principles, social construction of reality, complexity and interrelationships; problem finding not just creative problem solving; aware of paradox and contradiction in system and self; sensitive to unique market niches, historical moment, larger social movements; creates “positive-sum” games; aware of own power (and perhaps tempted by it); seeks feedback from others and environment as vital for growth and making sense of world.
 

Affect levels: "compassion"(green), all-human love(green-yellow), world-centric altruism(yellow-tourquise) IMO or I am retarded reading the map.

THIRD TIER!

Psychic: (which is coral in my humble opinion and has been called indigo in the past) 

Characteristic: union with world process, nature mysticism, gross nature unity.
Main focus: Being, non-controlling consciousness; witnessing flux of experience and states of mind. Emergence of a perspective that is ego-transcendent or universal; people holding this stage of consciousness seem to “…experience themselves and others as part of ongoing humanity, embedded in the creative ground, fulfilling the destiny of evolution” (Cook-Greuter, 2002); consciousness ceases to appear as a constraint but rather as one more phenomenon that can be foreground or background; an integration of feelings of belongingness and separateness occurs; multiple points of view can be taken effortlessly; the pattern of constant flux and change becomes the context for feeling at home; one is able to respect the essence in others, no matter how different they may be; one is in tune with their life’s work as “a simultaneous expression of their unique selves” and as part of their shared humanity.

Affect levels: awe, rapture, all-species love, compassion
 

Moral span: all earthly beings without exception

Subtle:

Characteristics: union with creatrix of the gross realm; deity mysticism, subtle realm unity.

Moral span -> all sentient beings without exception in all realms without exception ( saintly) 

Affect levels: Ananda, ecstasy, love-bliss, saintly commitment.

Casual:

Characteristics: Union with source of manifest realms; formless mysticism
Moral span -> all sentient beings without exception in all realms without exception ( saintly) including all manifest and unmanifest reality. (Self-liberation in primordial awareness). The habit of observing the self cease to observe imo.

Affect levels:  infinite freedom-release, boddhisattvic-compassion. 

Non-Dual: 

Characteristic: union of form and formless, Spirit and World Process, non-dual mysticism.

Moral span -> all manifest and unmanifest reality. (Self-liberation in primordial awareness) 

Affect levels: one taste, compassion.

 

I can or did not find more on the topic so far besides reading the traditions who actually practiced it to these levels. But, this even more complex IMO, since it then has to be abstracted towards the development of the most important lines. Cognitive, interpersonal, moral, self-identify, etc. Whatever is the most important. 

Hopefully, this is useful. Would love to read a summary from others. In case they found different information. Here is the link from the pdf, the rest is from the book integral psychology. https://integralwithoutborders.net/sites/default/files/resources/Overview of Developmental Levels.pdf

Edited April 13, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

Spiral Dynamics breaks down around Turquoise. Ken Wilber's intergal model works much better at mapping stages above Turquoise.

The problem is that you cannot understand anything above Turquoise unless you become very awake and experienced with spiritual practices. Which the creators of Spiral Dynamics are not. So it is above their head.

[mandyjw]

I think that past turquoise there are just trees, the sky, the water, the stars, black holes, light, energy. Dispersed expansive all encompassing life energy. In stage turquoise you get to dance with it, knowing it as yourself but still able to play with things because there is a you and there are things. That dissolves eventually. 

[Andreas]

Stage orange people who think they are stage coral because they had a spiritual experience. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Leo Gura I can see that and be attentive to the possibility that some know and don't have data or hide the information. Like Susan-Cook-Greuter.

I wrote with someone and asked her to explain her yoga practice in the subtle releam I am quoting her know. She has a Ph.D. + 38 years of experience in this yoga path. Also, she wrote that some gurus did the general cult thing, drugs, sex, exploitation etc. Also, that some persons are saint-like and miracles happened around them.

 

Quote

The path of Surat Shabd Yoga starts with what Wilber calls the subtle state. Almost everyone who takes initiation has some experience of the inner, subtle Light and Sound at the very first sitting. While this path is supposed to take us all the way to non-dual, to be honest, I do not personally know of any initiate who has gone beyond the causal. But then, we are instructed not to talk about our own meditation experiences, so I’m sure there’s lots going on with lots of people that I don’t know about.

I did consider the perspective of exploiting her data. But I am not revealing her identity or revealing anything that is out of the ordinary.


Also, the 3-2-1 process worked great for her and that it is similar to jungs active imagination theory( or fritz pearls talking chair method) . This all was in the context of vipassana hindering shadow work. Since stuff is being endlessly dissociated and labled. So, I was curious how shinzens path differs. According to him it is different.

Shamanic breathing and psychedelics are most likely more effective. Yet, I am trying to get priorities straight which is extremely difficult for me since the beginning of time. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Andreas What do you mean with that? I don't understand how a single post defines a whole person.

[Andreas]

51 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@Andreas What do you mean with that? I don't understand how a single post defines a whole person.

There is no stage Coral and anyone who thinks they are stage Coral is wrong. 

 

[Leo Gura]

@ValiantSalvatore I don't understand how what you wrote relates to what I wrote. What is your point?

Shinzen teaches a narrow version of his vipasanna/mindfulness system. He does not talk about stages of development.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Leo Gura That there are other people who are doing a spiritual practice and use the same framework from Wilber which helps to explain stages and state-stages. Also, I assume that many things you say are correct. But I do not have the relevant experience. Also, that the person has experience in these realms. Nothing more than, besides additional information and opinions.

@Andreas Why do you think that?

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@Leo Gura That there are other people who are doing a spiritual practice and use the same framework from Wilber which helps to explain stages and state-stages.

Well sure. It's not like Ken has a monopoly on this stuff.

But as a general rule of thumb, I would never trust a professional academic's level of awakening or metaphysical understanding to be the highest.

The wisest and most conscious people would never be academics. This doesn't mean academics don't have some valuable contributions to make. They do. But their understanding will not be too high or all-encompassing and they will miss very important facets of the big picture.

To understand the highest stages you must look for visionaries and geniuses.

[ajasatya]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The wisest and most conscious people would never be academics.

the wisest and most conscious people can be gardeners, chiefs, monks, academics etc... it has very little to do with the profession. it's much more about how you define (or rather, not define) yourself. there's nothing wrong/bad/diminishing as long as you do good service to society.

there are some corrupted professions, though. a wise person would never pay the bills by selling pleasure through his/her body.

Edited April 13, 2019 by ajasatya

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Leo Gura I know. I just find it odd, that people can't entertain the overall idea. It is good when some stuff is re-framed. It still hurts sometimes.

Who are visionaries and geniuses you would recommend reading about? I have the booklist. Because I would conflate geniuses and visionaries with academics or famous entrepreneurs. The most "conscious" would be Rupert Sheldrake imo. I am sometimes just amazed how deeply some academics would benefit from spiritual practice and how some of them embody these aspects extremely well, without knowing about them(stages and spiral dynamics, not spirituality). They are teaching at least the perspective. Especially, since the people here are artsier(in my studies tech/media/design) it is not as strict and I feel they would allow unfolding the stages, yet I still feel they are stuck inside the system. I truly do not understand why they create a lecture at a small university, that even to them seems boring. Some abuse it to have a good time. But, at least there is fun and you can ask questions. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Shinzen teaches a narrow version of his vipasanna/mindfulness system. He does not talk about stages of development.

Yes, I was curious if Shinzens mindfulness system work with shadow work, because it is a remodeling of vipassana and vipassana, hinders shadow integration according to Wilber. That is how the conversation about these stages occurred in the first place, with the other person revealing her 38 years experience of yoga and recently starting shadow work while knowing and having experienced cult behavior. I was curious if I made progress and if someone shares what he or she knows.

[CreamCat]

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

there are some corrupted professions, though. a wise person would never pay the bills by selling pleasure through his/her body.

Sex work?

[ajasatya]

2 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Sex work?

yes. but that's just one example.

[ValiantSalvatore]

Now I hear sheeps. Great. If someone could riddle me the mule riddle I would find that fantastic.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

the wisest and most conscious people can be gardeners, chiefs, monks, academics etc... it has very little to do with the profession.

Technically they can. But usually they ain't.

You won't find a lot of yogis on Wall Street.

[Leo Gura]

@ajasatya I've met more strippers who are into meditation and spirituality than bankers

[Esoteric]

@ajasatya Yeah, can you please elaborate on this? Why could a wise person be a university professor but not sell sex? Is that not a belief you are clinging onto?