Does anyone exist at any level

[Shaun]

13 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Shaun glad you managed to get out of it and get back on track. That does give me some hope, but feeling really hopeless. I don't know if I buy the whole nonduality narrative, but I can't discount it, that's the issue. I know that the Self is an illusion though. Either that or we have a soul and our mind is our soul in some way. I just don't know. All I know is, I am fed up of all this.

I don't want you to kill yourself and I am damn sure there are others who don't want you to either. I was exactly the same, I could not discount the possibility that all my friends and family are just fakes but then I realised that all of it is just mental masturbation which, as you are experiencing right now, is highly destructive. The best thing I did was to believe nothing and investigate my direct experience of reality by myself. I meditate and practice mindfulness in the way that Thich Nhat Hanh teaches. Please look him up on youtube, he is a truly wonderful teacher.

Just look at every spiritual teacher and enlightened person and see how happy they are. Your misery is caused by trying to understand stuff the mind just can't understand so please, for your own good, have a rest. I know it's totally unrelated but Bob Ross painting videos on youtube helped me so much. too.

[Paul92]

@Shaun I'll take a look. I've tried meditating. And I find it really weird and only creeps me out even more. Sure, occasionally I find it relaxing in some moments. But still, it doesn't answer anything for me.

Yes, they might look happy. But they all say different things. A lot of it is word salad. I like Sadhguru. When I first started watching him, he seemed to be more human and less about woo. And then in other videos, he goes against what he said in another. You just don't know what to believe. Everyone's trying to find something that can't be found, oh and we have no free will, but we must do the practices.. which infers free will etc.

Yeah, it is driving me crazy. If I could fall asleep peacefully and not wake up that'd be ideal. Seriously man. It's tough. I enjoyed being Paul! He was a good guy!

[OBEler]

@Paul92 how was the talk with the girl from the church about god? Right now I think you are a little bit trapped in ideologies called solipsism and nihilism, your mind tries to contextualize your experience. Have faith that you can get out of it,. Then slowly come back to spirituality when you are grounded. It will be better and better. 

@Leo Gura lately some people here in this forum go a bit nihilistic and solipsistic. Even though you adressed this problem already in many videos like that video about ideology, maybe it could help here or in one another video to clarify whats going on

 

 

[bejapuskas]

I think Leo should address the importance of actually having a direct experience of all these insights, because when he tries to conceptualize them, people try to grasp them using mind, which sucks. I don't think people committing suicides here is ok you know?

[Shaun]

1 hour ago, bejapuskas said:

I think Leo should address the importance of actually having a direct experience of all these insights, because when he tries to conceptualize them, people try to grasp them using mind, which sucks. I don't think people committing suicides here is ok you know?

Definitely, I have seen three posts here so far where people have decided to or are contemplating killing themselves. Leo needs to take a more compassionate approach at times and address this issue in the form of a video about nihilism and suicide. In his spiritual awakening video, enlightenment happening in real time, he said that he doesn't care about anyone any more and I think dropping that attitude would be a good idea.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Shaun

[bejapuskas]

@Shaun  Oh yeah, also some people here could maybe be more compassionate towards the people... When people like Paul say, that they have a problem and they obviously, need a solution, it's not a good idea to try to push that person even harder, try to be correct in the conversation and stuff... I mean, wake up, people! 

[Paul92]

@Shaun  @bejapuskas I wouldn't say I am looking for anyone to be particularly compassionate to me. I'm just being honest about my views. Often all we get is, do the work! You do not exist! I guess it's my own problem really. Still, doesn't make it any less tough.

@OBEler I'm still talking with her on and off. She's 1000% committed to Jesus and God. I live in the UK, by the way. She's a Romanian who lives here, and Christianity is still huge over there. She's currently hanging around with a few missionaries from the U.S. who are over here for a while. She wants me to go and meet them with her for a chat. The thing is, I am skeptical about Christianity, even though I am officially a Protestant Christian within the Church of England. But, perhaps this is my ego speaking, I feel as though I could be prepared to do work into believing in Jesus and God much rather than nonduality.

[bejapuskas]

@Paul92  Jesus is a cool guy, his teachings go far beyond ego, you don't have to fall into this mainstream Christianity stuff, you are absolutely free to interpret it in your own way.  I honestly think, that you are ready to move onto another teaching, the goal of this path is to enjoy life more.  

[Paul92]

@bejapuskas I enjoyed life more as Paul. I was carefree, really. I loved the world, whatever it is. But clearly, it's probably not what it seems. I keep watching different 'gurus': Sadhguru, Tolle, Mooji, Spira... all I seem to get is word salad and contradictions. And you might say the next stage is to cease thinking to realise the truth. But come on...

If, whatever I am, as an experience or whatever, I can't be Paul, then I don't think I want to be anything at all. Life was so much brighter when i was Paul, and you was you. My friends were my friends. Real people, with souls. Entities that are born and live a life. I'm not sure that is the case anymore.

What I don't get is, everyone here preaches detachment and being egoless. But yet, many people are married and have children. Can they honestly say they are not attached to their children any more so than anything else? If their child died, would they not feel more heartbroken than the death of a stranger? Because we are the same thing? I don't want to live in a world of nothingness.

[Shaun]

27 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@bejapuskas I enjoyed life more as Paul. I was carefree, really. I loved the world, whatever it is. But clearly, it's probably not what it seems. I keep watching different 'gurus': Sadhguru, Tolle, Mooji, Spira... all I seem to get is word salad and contradictions. And you might say the next stage is to cease thinking to realise the truth. But come on...

If, whatever I am, as an experience or whatever, I can't be Paul, then I don't think I want to be anything at all. Life was so much brighter when i was Paul, and you was you. My friends were my friends. Real people, with souls. Entities that are born and live a life. I'm not sure that is the case anymore.

What I don't get is, everyone here preaches detachment and being egoless. But yet, many people are married and have children. Can they honestly say they are not attached to their children any more so than anything else? If their child died, would they not feel more heartbroken than the death of a stranger? Because we are the same thing? I don't want to live in a world of nothingness.

For all intents and purposes, you are still Paul and I am still Shaun. Whether reality is made of matter, consciousness or fairy dust doesn't really have an effect on our lives. We will continue on regardless. Take it easy for a while and don't go too hard at it. Also, please don't get involved with religion, it's heavily loaded with dogma and bullshit.

[DrewNows]

@Paul92We can either go our whole lives letting others (family or society or gurus or videos or even this forum) tell us who we are and what to think, falling into traps and jumping onto bandwagons (trying to catch our own tail)....or we can STOP for one moment and say wait a minute, why am I assuming anyone else knows me better than I do? Or even reality? 

Just because others make you start questioning all your beliefs doesn’t mean you have to radically change your belief system to fit a “true” reality. That’s just another recipe for disaster. What if all you can really know is you cant know anything 

Why not take baby steps and focus on the things you want to change in your life. Question your assumptions and beliefs around each aspect you struggle with in that moment. Practice self love and look inward, for that’s where change is possible 

Also if you’re feeling down don’t forget, Paul (you), knows plenty of things to do to feel better, whether it’s helping someone else (maybe simply listening to a friend) , finding a good laugh or reading a good book. Whatever Paul likes to do, life can be enjoyed and not taken so seriously. 

thanks for reading but please don’t believe me either, I’m not you, or maybe I am  

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by DrewNows

[Paul92]

@DrewNows  I see what you are saying. For sure, it makes no obvious sense to take someone else's word as gospel. But it is obvious to me that it is hard to locate 'Paul' as a tangible 'thing' or being.

The only Paul that I know is what is in my head. Or you might say ego.

I could turn this on it's head pretty sharpish if the ego was something real, tangible and absolute. Not negative. Something that is 'us'. Perhaps not an ego, but a soul, if you like.

I could give myself some self love. I know what I like and what I love. How do I give myself to be permission to be me if there is no me?

It's tough. How anyone can find spirituality as something liberating is beyond me.

[Paul92]

@Nahm I've spent a good portion of the day trying to concentrate on my breathing in doing everything, like some people have suggested on here. But it isn't easy. And still, I don't understand what will happen with this.

if this is about emptying my head to the extent whereby I simply have no thoughts about anything then I can't be bothered with that. It's not arrogance, either. Just don't call it existing, or living.

It's not that I am not willing to do the practices. I just don't see what evidence there is to suggest that it achieves anything. Look at this forum for a start. People have been meditating, taking psychedelics, rubbing crystals etc for years, and they're still depressed or none the wiser as to what on earth is going on.

Look at 'normal' people. They just crack on.

[Nahm]

2 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Nahm I've spent a good portion of the day trying to concentrate on my breathing in doing everything, like some people have suggested on here. But it isn't easy. And still, I don't understand what will happen with this.

Stop trying to understand, that’s thinking. Keep doing the work.  

if this is about emptying my head to the extent whereby I simply have no thoughts about anything then I can't be bothered with that. It's not arrogance, either. Just don't call it existing, or living.

You are referrencing your belief when you say that - a thought. You have no idea whatsoever what you’re actually talking about because you have not done the work and have not experience this.

It's not that I am not willing to do the practices. I just don't see what evidence there is to suggest that it achieves anything.

The ego needs evidence. The ego desires achievement. That is thinking still. It is very very sneaky and tricky. You will not beat it. Try as you might. 

Look at this forum for a start. People have been meditating, taking psychedelics, rubbing crystals etc for years, and they're still depressed or none the wiser as to what on earth is going on.

That is just your thinking / beliefs. 

Look at 'normal' people. They just crack on.

I’m normal. Average. Plain. 

 

 

[Nahm]

@Paul92 I think it would serve you tremendously for me to call  your bluff here. You stand to have your paradigm completely flipped. I know it’s bold, but, desperate times.....

And it’s all in the name of Love eradicating suffering. 

 

I’m going to make a post that begins as such, and I believe people will share very honestly from the heart, and that it will be helpful to many people. 

[Paul92]

@Nahm  Maybe I am frustrating you. Do you know anyone who has OCD? Have you heard of Pure OCD? As in no outward compulsions, purely mental. My mind needs 100% certainty on everything. Man, if I could tell you all the themes my OCD has had in my life, you'd be amazed. Wondering whether I had HIV. Taking a test, and still not believing it because it didn't 'feel'l right in my head. That's just one crazy example. When I was 19, with my girlfriend of the time, I had to confess every single thought I had to her (compulsion) that I believed might have been unfair or unfaithful. Same with my last girlfriend. I didn't confess anything actually, but it tried attacking her in the same way. This is why my mind is stubborn. It is not so easy for me to just let go of things. My mind is hyper hyper active. I'm sorry. I don't really know what peoples' stance on things such as OCD are on here, whether it is a real thing or not. But if youd experienced it, you might understand. This is why this is so scary... because my mind needs 100% certainty on something that ultimately, I can't get certainty on.

[Nahm]

@Paul92 Congrats man. That’s the first sign of vulnerability & genuine honesty I’ve seen from you, and I’m loving it. I know it’s hard. My wife suffered from this for over a decade. She tried everything. Transcendental meditation one on one with a coach was a major breakthrough for her. From that practice, 30 minutes 2x a day, she experienced awareness for the first time. She then went on a 10 day retreat to Sedona AZ chalked full of EMDR, Shamanic Breathing, etc, etc. It was deeply life changing for her. In hindsight, she realized her OCD was overthinking driven by emotional suppression. Not gonna lie to ya, the next couple years were rough man. But, she’s living and breathing well being now, very happy, no longer suffering. You can do this Paul. You can. I did. She did. I made a post about it. I anticipate you’re going to read first hand that basically - each of us had an “OCD”, or “manic depression, or “hyper anxiety”. You can do this man. Keep opening up, keep breathing from your stomach, keep looking into and trying meditation, utilize every single resource available to you and find even more. We have to try a lot of things, but you can do this. 

[Truth Addict]

@Paul92

You don't know what you're missing, nothing is pointless, nothing is meaningless, and nothing is arbitrary.

All of this is happening for 'you', don't believe me, just wait and see, and don't give up on life.

The best part of the movie is the conclusion 

[Paul92]

@Truth Addict  You mean death?

[Truth Addict]

13 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Truth Addict  You mean death?

Ego-death.