Sharing and being intimate with a girlfriend - is it ok?

[billiesimon]

Confusing title, I'm gonna explain.

If you decide to be completely authentic and vulnerable with your girl, is this going to scare her away or make her think that she's in a couple with a loser? I mean, girls tend to like detached and cold guys, because they like the strength and the non-emotional attitude.

I see that girls like to share THEIR own emotions with their bf a lot. Because they are feminine and so on.
But I don't see girls generally liking if their boyfriend shares his ups and downs, joys and sorrows in life.

Do girls just want to share their own emotions and want the guy to remain stoic?

Is it a turn-off for girls if you look for empathy and emotional warmth?

In a nutshell, is sharing vulnerability a one-way street? (girl to boy, but not the other way back)

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

If you decide to be completely authentic and vulnerable with your girl, is this going to scare her away or make her think that she's in a couple with a loser?

If you are completely authentic and vulnerable and she leaves you, then she is doing you a favor.
Just imagine being with her for 40 years while pretending to be someone you're not. Every day trying to outsmart her, concealing your flaws and exaggerating your achievements. Being on guard, not letting anything wrong slip, so that you are the man you assume that she finds attractive.
Does this sound like something you would be interested doing? I assume not.

If she leaves you after you show your true colors, then it means that one of you were probably not ready for a relationship.

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

I mean, girls tend to like detached and cold guys, because they like the strength and the non-emotional attitude.

No, women like men that can take care of their own emotions and be useful.
That has nothing to do with being non-emotional. To get to that point you have to be very in touch with whatever you're going through emotionally.

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

I see that girls like to share THEIR own emotions with their bf a lot. Because they are feminine and so on.
But I don't see girls generally liking if their boyfriend shares his ups and downs, joys and sorrows in life.

It depends from what point of view the man is sharing his ups and downs.
Men don't usually talk about problems if they can take care of them by themselves.
People that genuinely need help and ask for it are much better than the ones that pretend that everything is cool while being walking time-bombs.
It is a sign of maturity and strength when a man knows his weaknesses and is not afraid to ask others to help him overcome them.

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

Do girls just want to share their own emotions and want the guy to remain stoic?

It depends on the subject matter.
If she's feeling negative emotions towards something that is happening between the two of you - it is best to remain stoic. 
If, however, she's emotional towards something external, then there's nothing wrong in joining.

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

Is it a turn-off for girls if you look for empathy and emotional warmth?

Only if you're pretending that you're looking for it. If you're genuinely empathetic then it's a plus.

1 hour ago, billiesimon said:

In a nutshell, is sharing vulnerability a one-way street? (girl to boy, but not the other way back)

No! It's a two-way street.

Edited April 12, 2019 by tsuki

[Forestluv]

@billiesimon Ime each relationship has it's own unique chemistry and dynamics (affected by one's personal history, their age, their life situation, their physiology, their culture etc). I don't think it's possible to make a blanket statement and say "this is what women want".

Rather than trying to figure out what women want and to try to be that person, I've found it better to look at myself and what my genuine personality is and work with that. Then, a natural attraction and good chemistry with a woman arises. For example, I am naturally more open and empathetic, and I'm generally comfortable sharing about all sorts of emotions such as vulnerabilities, fears, insecurities etc. I like connecting through emotions. For example, I might like doing an eye gazing exercise with a partner to stimulate connection, experience what arises and then share about it. To me, that creates a sense of unity and bonding. I get to learn about her experience. There is often a sense of mutual support and a sense of "us" when we are together. 

Some women find this to be a complete turn-off. They want some image of a stoic male, some type of "alpha-male" or whatever that whole game is. I have no interest in living in that world. We absolutely don't connect. There are other women that like a level of sharing emotional and empathetic connection - to a degree. I generally like going deep and that depth can be overwhelming to many women. They just want to casually talk about and express their emotions - and bond on a relatively surface level. Here, I have to be careful not to go to depths that will freak them out. For example, Tantra and eye gazing can get emotionally intense and it can get uncomfortable for a lot of people - both men and women. 

I've had to learn about establishing healthy personal boundaries in this area. I tend to be more open and "over-share". It can be too much for some people. As well, being open and vulnerable does not mean dumping a lot of emotional baggage and projecting onto another person in a selfish or manipulative way to get what one wants - like attention. That is an immature expression. A more mature expression is a type of grounded, centered, genuine fearless vulnerability - it has a very different essence to it. Some women are attracted to this. Some are not.

I've also found that over-sharing and empathy can create an unhealthy co-dependent relationship. Especially when a person that leans empathetic is with a person that leans narcissistic. I have over-shared in this dynamic and the other person uses that information in a manipulative selfish way - such as gaslighting. The empathetic person can get trapped in this dynamic because they feel empathy for the other person's negative emotions and want to help them, yet the other person isn't interested in being helped - they are motivated to get what they want. 

I think, in general, women like to have a certain degree of emotional and empathetic connection. Those that want more will be attracted to men that have a higher emotional intelligence and capacity for empathy. I'm aware of this level of desire and readiness with someone I'm with and I share at the same level she is sharing. Occasionally, I will go more open and deeper and get a sense of her response. Quite often, she will want to explore deeper. Other times, she will get a bit defensive and re-establish boundaries. Then I respect those boundaries and pull back. . . . There is a "now" aspect of emotional intimacy that is independent of the timeline and there is also an emotional intimacy that takes time to development. 

[billiesimon]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

@billiesimon Ime each relationship has it's own unique chemistry and dynamics (affected by one's personal history, their age, their life situation, their physiology, their culture etc). I don't think it's possible to make a blanket statement and say "this is what women want".

Rather than trying to figure out what women want and to try to be that person, I've found it better to look at myself and what my genuine personality is and work with that. Then, a natural attraction and good chemistry with a woman arises. For example, I am naturally more open and empathetic, and I'm generally comfortable sharing about all sorts of emotions such as vulnerabilities, fears, insecurities etc. I like connecting through emotions. For example, I might like doing an eye gazing exercise with a partner to stimulate connection, experience what arises and then share about it. To me, that creates a sense of unity and bonding. I get to learn about her experience. There is often a sense of mutual support and a sense of "us" when we are together. 

Some women find this to be a complete turn-off. They want some image of a stoic male, some type of "alpha-male" or whatever that whole game is. I have no interest in living in that world. We absolutely don't connect. There are other women that like a level of sharing emotional and empathetic connection - to a degree. I generally like going deep and that depth can be overwhelming to many women. They just want to casually talk about and express their emotions - and bond on a relatively surface level. Here, I have to be careful not to go to depths that will freak them out. For example, Tantra and eye gazing can get emotionally intense and it can get uncomfortable for a lot of people - both men and women. 

I've had to learn about establishing healthy personal boundaries in this area. I tend to be more open and "over-share". It can be too much for some people. As well, being open and vulnerable does not mean dumping a lot of emotional baggage and projecting onto another person in a selfish or manipulative way to get what one wants - like attention. That is an immature expression. A more mature expression is a type of grounded, centered, genuine fearless vulnerability - it has a very different essence to it. Some women are attracted to this. Some are not.

I've also found that over-sharing and empathy can create an unhealthy co-dependent relationship. Especially when a person that leans empathetic is with a person that leans narcissistic. I have over-shared in this dynamic and the other person uses that information in a manipulative selfish way - such as gaslighting. The empathetic person can get trapped in this dynamic because they feel empathy for the other person's negative emotions and want to help them, yet the other person isn't interested in being helped - they are motivated to get what they want. 

I think, in general, women like to have a certain degree of emotional and empathetic connection. Those that want more will be attracted to men that have a higher emotional intelligence and capacity for empathy. I'm aware of this level of desire and readiness with someone I'm with and I share at the same level she is sharing. Occasionally, I will go more open and deeper and get a sense of her response. Quite often, she will want to explore deeper. Other times, she will get a bit defensive and re-establish boundaries. Then I respect those boundaries and pull back. . . . There is a "now" aspect of emotional intimacy that is independent of the timeline and there is also an emotional intimacy that takes time to development. 

Quite an excellent response, thank you very much! 

I definitely have a lot of emotional intelligence and empathy, but I've had both good experiences (girls who wanted to share) and bad. I was traumatized because sharing without being understood is very painful, and sometimes I tend to be very fake-stoic with girls because of the deep fear of being hurt.

 

My emotional nature is very painful to me, there were times where I absolutely hated it.

So what you reccomend is having a better screening process. Let me ask a question: the best way to screen is letting my emotional being shine through and not concealing it, right?

 

Another thing: what's the best way to grow in this area of life? I guess meeting girls and screening hard with my emotional compatibiliy?

[billiesimon]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

If you are completely authentic and vulnerable and she leaves you, then she is doing you a favor.

Thanks for your reply too. Especially this part highlights the importance of screening and having standards!

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, billiesimon said:

So what you recommend is having a better screening process. Let me ask a question: the best way to screen is letting my emotional being shine through and not concealing it, right?

It's a combination. I would be genuine. To me, the term "conceal" suggests "hiding" something.

It might be easier to explain this on an intellectual line. I teach genetics at a University. Sometimes I go on a date with someone and something related to genetics pop up. Maybe something in the news about genetics or perhaps a friend just had stem cell therapy and she is curious about genetics. Should I speak to her at a University level of genetics? No way. That would be inappropriate. It would come across as being arrogant and would not be helpful to her. It would be overwhelming and would cause tension. Rather, I would explain things in simpler terms - yet I would also appreciate her curiosity and I would feel good that I had knowledge to offer her. I wouldn't say I was "concealing" knowledge. I would say that I was offering knowledge at the level of the situation.

Similarly, if I went out on a date, I would get a feel for the level of emotional depth the other person is comfortable with. If she casually mentions an insecurity she has at work and I go deep into the existential nature of human insecurity and fears of intimacy etc. that is inappropriate. As well, if I try to connect emotionally and there is a nonverbal boundary - I need to respect that and not dig deeper. Just like I wouldn't start talking about complex genetics concepts. The key for me is to sense this - it is often nonverbal. I feel an essence. Or she may change the topic or turn her body away. 

I would screen for people that have a certain level of emotional IQ and openness when I first meet them. Yet this is also developed over time. It is not "either / or". There are certainly times when I meet someone and she is totally closed down with major defenses and is totally out of touch with emotions. I would pass on this one. Yet another extreme is also a red flag. If someone totally opens up on the first date and becomes an emotional mess. . . no way. I'm attracted to women that have a sense of maturity about their emotions. They are grounded and have an openness that is appropriate for the situation. Also, that they have an interest to explore emotions and develop emotional bonds. Yet that takes time. Someone grasping at that on a first date looks very immature to me.

2 hours ago, billiesimon said:

One other thing: what's the best way to grow in this area of life? I guess meeting girls and screening hard with my emotional compatibiliy?

I would say exploring your own emotions solo and with others - yet not in a "frothy" or "clingy" or "needy" kind of way. I also found it helpful to listen to heart-centered spiritual videos. As well, express emotions more. Write poetry, do art - allow those emotions to be expressed.

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv @tsuki great advice.

Opposites attract however, you also need to have things common with your partner where it really counts. If you're looking for a long term relationship try to find someone who will challenge you. Sometimes that means finding someone with more traditional, high IQ, type intelligence when you have high emotional intelligence or vice versa. 

Most couples are mismatched, heart led with someone brainy. If you're heart led you might want to look for a more intellectual type woman. You'll give her what she can't access easily on her own and vice versa. My father has really high emotional intelligence but compared with my mother he's not nearly as smart. I would have had a horribly cold and disconnected childhood without his warmth, and I would have been neglected without my mothers careful planning.

I on the other hand, only really like intellectual type guys. I'm good friends with heart led guys but together we'd suck at making it through life together as partners. I can just imagine the passionate fights we'd have, the relationship wouldn't last two weeks. Instead my husband is more cold and unfeeling on the surface. It drives me crazy and I always saw him as a challenge to get him to open up and see what he was really all about. 

Put the work into really digging deep so that you know yourself really well. Then you'll know what partners to pick.

If a girl is turned off by you sharing too much, that might mean she just isn't the right match. It doesn't mean you were wrong to share, in fact you probably saved yourself weeks of wasted agony in the relationship. 

Also, trust and work to hone your intuition.

Also remember that attraction and love is beyond thought and understanding, bottom line. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

@Serotoninluv @tsuki great advice.

Opposites attract 

I’n this case, attraction to opposite would be very unhealthy. It would be a woman that is emotionally unavailable and narcissistic. In the past, I have actually been attracted to that and it turns into a bad story.

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv What exactly about them attracted you? 

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Serotoninluv What exactly about them attracted you? 

That’s a good question. It’s been a while since I was in that dynamic. I’m trying to remember what it was about them. I think it was complicated with various aspects - in terms of just the narcissism, it had something to do with seeking attention and approval from them.  I remember them manipulating this - like really badly. I remember wondering a lot if they really cared about me or not. Also, there was an aspect of suffering to them I wanted to help. I wanted to help them see within themselves various blocks and defenses so they could heal inner turmoil. Yet they had no interest in looking at this and used as a weapon.

In a weird way, we also had a type of magic. As unhealthy as one side was, the other side was unbelievably beautiful magic.

[mandyjw]

8 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

That’s a good question. It’s been a while since I was in that dynamic. I’m trying to remember what it was about them. I think it was complicated with various aspects - in terms of just the narcissism, it had something to do with seeking attention and approval from them.  I remember them manipulating this - like really badly. I remember wondering a lot if they really cared about me or not. Also, there was an aspect of suffering to them I wanted to help. I wanted to help them see within themselves various blocks and defenses so they could heal inner turmoil. Yet they had no interest in looking at this and used as a weapon.

In a weird way, we also had a type of magic. As unhealthy as one side was, the other side was unbelievably beautiful magic.

Those are the same patterns I've fallen into with my  relationships too, wanting to help or "save" somebody, wanting their attention and approval. Those are our own egoic needs though. 

Isn't that interesting how we go into a relationship on hand wanting to be loved and accepted as we are and THEN we also have this big goal and intention of fixing them?  We can't have both. 

I'm just wondering what that same relationship dynamic would be like now that you are more conscious... if you could resist falling into those ego traps. Would it be all beautiful magic? Think how much you'd have to open your heart, be vulnerable and be present with what is in order to manage. 

[billiesimon]

On 12/4/2019 at 10:48 PM, Serotoninluv said:

It's a combination. I would be genuine. To me, the term "conceal" suggests "hiding" something.

It might be easier to explain this on an intellectual line. I teach genetics at a University. Sometimes I go on a date with someone and something related to genetics pop up. Maybe something in the news about genetics or perhaps a friend just had stem cell therapy and she is curious about genetics. Should I speak to her at a University level of genetics? No way. That would be inappropriate. It would come across as being arrogant and would not be helpful to her. It would be overwhelming and would cause tension. Rather, I would explain things in simpler terms - yet I would also appreciate her curiosity and I would feel good that I had knowledge to offer her. I wouldn't say I was "concealing" knowledge. I would say that I was offering knowledge at the level of the situation.

Similarly, if I went out on a date, I would get a feel for the level of emotional depth the other person is comfortable with. If she casually mentions an insecurity she has at work and I go deep into the existential nature of human insecurity and fears of intimacy etc. that is inappropriate. As well, if I try to connect emotionally and there is a nonverbal boundary - I need to respect that and not dig deeper. Just like I wouldn't start talking about complex genetics concepts. The key for me is to sense this - it is often nonverbal. I feel an essence. Or she may change the topic or turn her body away. 

I would screen for people that have a certain level of emotional IQ and openness when I first meet them. Yet this is also developed over time. It is not "either / or". There are certainly times when I meet someone and she is totally closed down with major defenses and is totally out of touch with emotions. I would pass on this one. Yet another extreme is also a red flag. If someone totally opens up on the first date and becomes an emotional mess. . . no way. I'm attracted to women that have a sense of maturity about their emotions. They are grounded and have an openness that is appropriate for the situation. Also, that they have an interest to explore emotions and develop emotional bonds. Yet that takes time. Someone grasping at that on a first date looks very immature to me.

I would say exploring your own emotions solo and with others - yet not in a "frothy" or "clingy" or "needy" kind of way. I also found it helpful to listen to heart-centered spiritual videos. As well, express emotions more. Write poetry, do art - allow those emotions to be expressed.

Thanks again, great concepts and insights.

[billiesimon]

22 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@Serotoninluv @tsuki great advice.

Opposites attract however, you also need to have things common with your partner where it really counts. If you're looking for a long term relationship try to find someone who will challenge you. Sometimes that means finding someone with more traditional, high IQ, type intelligence when you have high emotional intelligence or vice versa. 

Most couples are mismatched, heart led with someone brainy. If you're heart led you might want to look for a more intellectual type woman. You'll give her what she can't access easily on her own and vice versa. My father has really high emotional intelligence but compared with my mother he's not nearly as smart. I would have had a horribly cold and disconnected childhood without his warmth, and I would have been neglected without my mothers careful planning.

I on the other hand, only really like intellectual type guys. I'm good friends with heart led guys but together we'd suck at making it through life together as partners. I can just imagine the passionate fights we'd have, the relationship wouldn't last two weeks. Instead my husband is more cold and unfeeling on the surface. It drives me crazy and I always saw him as a challenge to get him to open up and see what he was really all about. 

Put the work into really digging deep so that you know yourself really well. Then you'll know what partners to pick.

If a girl is turned off by you sharing too much, that might mean she just isn't the right match. It doesn't mean you were wrong to share, in fact you probably saved yourself weeks of wasted agony in the relationship. 

Also, trust and work to hone your intuition.

Also remember that attraction and love is beyond thought and understanding, bottom line. 

In my opinion it depends. It's not all black and white.

For example, I am both very intellectual and emotional, I've always been both a nerdy thinker and an emotional guy, I love playing music and talking about emotions, but also science and analytical stuff, since I was a kid.

The emotional and intellectual blueprints are not mutually exclusive, there are people who have both.

 

Regarding a partner, I noticed in my life that I connect only with emotional girls with at least some kind of intellectual and brainy dimensions. But the emotional baseline is the most important one for me in a woman. I can't stand a cold-thinking woman as a partner.

Edited April 13, 2019 by billiesimon

[Shadowraix]

The girl I am with now I have been dating for over a year and a half. I share my emotions with her and all of my spiritual insights. I'm an open book. She is with me too. We fully accept and embrace each other. We don't "fight" because we communicate any concerns before it becomes a major issue. 

Everything is great. These women exist they are just not as apparent at first.