It´s enlightment the only way to escape from being chained to states of mind?

[Javfly33]

I have some important questions and I hope i hope somebody can give me some direction. Recently I have been discovering some things:

1- It seems I have no aparent control about my future. I am yet not 100% sure what "free will" means, but what I know I am sure is that the feeling of "security" of controlling things is totally a lie (and a dangerous one). This is not to be confused with planning long-term. You can of course strategize and plan about the future.

2. Since the point 1 seems true, then comes the realization that my life (and the 99% of human beings) it´s chained of being happy if you state of mind in that moment is good (happines,pleasure, etc), or being miserable if your state of mind in that moment is bad (depression, anxiety, fear, etc). There fore, the strategy of most humans is trying to control the future and themselves in order to strategize a future where good state of minds are more present through their lifes and the least of bad states of mind are present.

However, since you really can´t have control overyourself nor the rest of the people, situations, etc in that way, (see point 1) the only WAY I see to a human to live in peace the rest of it´s life is to do SOMETHING so it can be free from being chained about states of mind. Is this enlightment? Can you be "enlightned" and still be dependent on what your mind/body responses to pleasure? If enlightment doesn´t provide this liberation which seems so brutal and radical, what can?  I can´t see other solution.

[WelcometoReality]

@Javfly33 An enlightened being will still have "bad" feelings like sadness, anger etc. The movement from these feelings to achieve more pleasant feelings stops. They are still at peace even though these feelings are present.

The meaning of the concept enlightenment varies but I would say that yes that is one of the hallmarks of enlightenment. There is a stillness/peace that is always present.

[Dumb Enlightened]

45 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I have some important questions and I hope i hope somebody can give me some direction. Recently I have been discovering some things:

1- It seems I have no aparent control about my future. I am yet not 100% sure what "free will" means, but what I know I am sure is that the feeling of "security" of controlling things is totally a lie (and a dangerous one). This is not to be confused with planning long-term. You can of course strategize and plan about the future.

2. Since the point 1 seems true, then comes the realization that my life (and the 99% of human beings) it´s chained of being happy if you state of mind in that moment is good (happines,pleasure, etc), or being miserable if your state of mind in that moment is bad (depression, anxiety, fear, etc). There fore, the strategy of most humans is trying to control the future and themselves in order to strategize a future where good state of minds are more present through their lifes and the least of bad states of mind are present.

However, since you really can´t have control overyourself nor the rest of the people, situations, etc in that way, (see point 1) the only WAY I see to a human to live in peace the rest of it´s life is to do SOMETHING so it can be free from being chained about states of mind. Is this enlightment? Can you be "enlightned" and still be dependent on what your mind/body responses to pleasure? If enlightment doesn´t provide this liberation which seems so brutal and radical, what can?  I can´t see other solution.

What would happen if you didn't care what happened to you, if you didn't care whether you had the things you wanted, whether things worked out the way you planned, if you totally accept things the way they are 100%, then you wouldn't suffer anymore, and then you would be enlightened,

The deal with the ego/mind identification is that it is always going after pleasure/happiness and running away from suffering, we only suffer because we think that somewhere else or something else is better than right now, you can see it if you look back to your life, people suffer for everything, depending on the country where you live your mind will have created an idea of what 'happiness' is, and a long list of circumstances that have to be fulfilled so then you can be happy.

Look how many people suffer because they don't have girlfriends, or because their girlfriends isn't hot enough, or they don't have enough things, or enough money, or enough power.... and it goes on and on and on. Is that true that we need these things ??

When you start to see the dirt tricks the mind is playing you'll catch the mind right at the moment that it creates the suffering, so now you can choose if you are gonna engage with it or not, When you stop trying to leave this moment the ego/mind identification will start to collapse, your levels of happiness and peace will increase, as your level of consciousness, and then eventually you will become enlightened

[Forestluv]

@Javfly33

"Is enlightment the only way to escape from being chained to states of mind?"

I suppose people have different definitions and concepts of "enlightenment", yet the closest I could come is just an ISness. It would be like asking "Is enlightenment the only way to escape from what IS?". How can what is be escaped from? This was one of the most uncomfortable direct experiences I've had. I realized I couldn't change what IS. Anything I did was ISness. Anything that happened was ISness. I was in nature and went into an insanity zone. I wanted to jump off a bridge "ISness". I was afraid I'd start screaming. ISness. Yet if I didn't scream, ISness. I could throw things and break branches. ISness. I got online to send Leo a PM for help. ISness. Anything Leo would say to me: ISness. He couldn't not be ISness. He couldn't make it stop either. If I was chained to mind states of the mind. ISness. If I was unchained from states of mind. ISness. There was no escape. Period. And it was terrifying. 

After about two hours there was a type of surrender to what IS. There terror turned to joy. I started laughing and singing. I pointed to ducks gleefully saying "A duck is a duck!". "Hello cloud! A cloud is a cloud!". Yet the joy and bliss was equally IS as the terror. Enlightenment just IS. It doesn't care about whether or not my personality is happy, sad, blissful or crazy. What IS will always be what IS. Even if I try to think about things differently - it's one IS or another IS. IS always IS. There is no escape. You are zero steps from enlightenment right now.

With this type of awakening, the min-body body changes. The relationship with reality changes. Many mind-body's many settle down and experience life differently. The realization may relax some blocks. Or maybe not. What if someone had that realization and went insane? Or the mind-body had a nervous breakdown? It's still ISness. It's still enlightenment. There is no escape. 

For my mind-body, there has been a major relaxation of the mind-body. This has opened up realms of experience I've never knew existed. Now that my mind-body realizes there is no way out of ISness, it chilled out and is much better going with the flow. 

At the human level, a curiosity about the personality dynamics has arisen. Much of the internal personality has been deconstructed, yet not all. As well, a desire to explore body sensations and connections to energies has arisen. There is much less wanting to get "my way" or to reach "my goals", or become something or to avoid something. 

One insight I've had is that I'm chained until I'm not chained. And it can happen in an instant. I've sat and just observed those chains. Sometimes they just disappear. There is noone that comes in and removes them. There is no guru or spiritual text. No achievement. No getting there. It always occurs in the moment. It's there and then it's not there. It's impossible. Yet it just happened. Once the mind realizes the impossible is possible a whole new reality opens up. Currently I am working to rewire my brain. Parts of me thinks "that is impossible" or "humans won't be able to do that for hundreds of years". Yet here I am, seeing the impossible arise. 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

I have some important questions and I hope i hope somebody can give me some direction. Recently I have been discovering some things:

1- It seems I have no aparent control about my future.

Who is choosing for you? 

I am yet not 100% sure what "free will" means, but what I know I am sure is that the feeling of "security" of controlling things is totally a lie (and a dangerous one). This is not to be confused with planning long-term. You can of course strategize and plan about the future.

Trust the infinite intelligence that is the entirety of experience. (You) If Santa Clause literally magically popped out of the chimney would you impose your notions on him? (Or just hear him out, and be excited for what’s in the sack, and say thank you)

2. Since the point 1 seems true, then comes the realization that my life (and the 99% of human beings) it´s chained of being happy if you state of mind in that moment is good (happines,pleasure, etc), or being miserable if your state of mind in that moment is bad (depression, anxiety, fear, etc). There fore, the strategy of most humans is trying to control the future and themselves in order to strategize a future where good state of minds are more present through their lifes and the least of bad states of mind are present.

Simply investigate “states of mind”. See how you got to / ended up in each one. Nobody is involved in your states of mind, but you. Have a look at what you’re doing. 

However, since you really can´t have control overyourself nor the rest of the people, situations, etc

Assumption. 

in that way, (see point 1) the only WAY I see to a human to live in peace the rest of it´s life is to do SOMETHING so it can be free from being chained about states of mind.

You’re perfect already, you don’t need to do something or anything. You get to. A single breath is a luxury. 

Is this enlightment? Can you be "enlightned" and still be dependent on what your mind/body responses to pleasure?

No. And I think you mean “reacts”.

If enlightment doesn´t provide this liberation which seems so brutal and radical, what can?  I can´t see other solution.

You’re doing it. You don’t need enlightenment for this. You need to be more aware of how it is that you’re causing your suffering, and stop. 

 

[Javfly33]

20 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Javfly33

"Is enlightment the only way to escape from being chained to states of mind?"

I suppose people...

Whoa, your message seems authentic. I feel I already have some observations which are in the direction of what you are talking about, but I see it (also like you before you experienced joy) terrifying. The fact of submission to isness doesn´t feel right from a perspective which still feels it needs to control something.

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Whoa, your message seems authentic. I feel I already have some observations which are in the direction of what you are talking about, but I see it (also like you before you experienced joy) terrifying. The fact of submission to isness doesn´t feel right from a perspective which still feels it needs to control something.

Yep. 

One of my deepest fears was that if I fully let go, something bad would happen - I experienced a lot of harm anxiety. I had deep fears if the "me" wasn't controlling the narrative, some darkness would arise. Like I would run outside and scream terrible things or hurt someone. It was a way for my ego to hold on. It pretty much said "Without me, all sorts of terrible things will happen". My other big anxiety was that I got in mind-body spaces in which I couldn't make it stop. I couldn't make the ISness of what was happening in the present moment stop. The weird thing was, it wasn't like anything bad was happening. It was just that I couldn't change or stop what is. There was no escape from it. Yet there is also the other side of the coin. . . for example, deeper levels of love, joy and beauty than I could have imagined.

[zeroISinfinity]

Well enlightenment is about  transcending all experiences and losing attachments from all of it. Instead of looking at the world as some thing real you should look at it as imposed onto your consciousness. Once you stop holding on unreal the real Will easily step up. 

[Javfly33]

13 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yep. 

One of my deepest fears was that if I fully let go, something bad would happen - I experienced a lot of harm anxiety. I had deep fears if the "me" wasn't controlling the narrative, some darkness would arise. Like I would run outside and scream terrible things or hurt someone. It was a way for my ego to hold on. It pretty much said "Without me, all sorts of terrible things will happen". My other big anxiety was that I got in mind-body spaces in which I couldn't make it stop. I couldn't make the ISness of what was happening in the present moment stop. The weird thing was, it wasn't like anything bad was happening. It was just that I couldn't change or stop what is. There was no escape from it. Yet there is also the other side of the coin. . . for example, deeper levels of love, joy and beauty than I could have imagined.

Has happened to me some times (and still does depending on the situation) in a sort of OCD style before taking psychedelics. My mind start telling:  "what If during tripping you let go as strong as you have been able during meditation, and decides to jump out of the window"? "Like, there´s if it happens you can´t do anything to stop jumping out of the window because in that you time because you are letting go to what it is...."

Then strangely enough when I trip all of this thoughts seems totally ridiculous and sometimes I don´t even remeber at all. But sometimes I wonder if it´s safe tripping with this kind of thoughts before hand or at the contrary it´s the actual therapy to trascend them.