'Trapped in the Body'

[GabrielWallace]

Hey everyone ~

I am trying to help a friend. Last year she did a vipassana meditation retreat and now she meditates around four hours a day. She claims that these days she only ever feels love, and no other emotion (although she's contradicted this a few times without realizing it). She completely lights up when talking about meditation and the 'wellspring' she goes into when she is there, and she says that her only life purpose is to be there. She says that before she learned to meditate and found her 'peaceful wellspring', every day of her life was torture. She's never seen any meaning in life, and still doesn't, but the meditation takes her away from the torture and into love.

On one level I don't want to suggest that she is wrong - both of us are very aware that meaning is simply created - and I wouldn't want her to change her meditation practice when it is so peaceful for her. What concerns me is how she talks about how "we could just forget this stupid life". I asked her to talk more about what she meant, and she told me about how she has "always felt trapped in the body" - particularly when taking a shit.

She recently did fasting where she only ate two bananas a day every day for more than a month, while meditating four or more hours a day. She said that she only felt total blissful love during this time, except when she went to the bathroom. She said she thought she would escape the torture of 'pooping' if she only ate a tiny bit each day, but to her surprise she still had to go each day. She said it's the one time she can't imagine being in a meditative state, because it's the worst and most torturous experience for her. (I clarified that it wasn't specifically a physical pain, but more a reminder how 'trapped' she is in her body.)

She said she feels trapped and tortured in this body, but when she meditates she can forget she has a body.

For me, meditation is not about 'forgetting I have a body', but rather connecting deeper with it - and of course, if I go really deep (on psychedelics, for example) then I can sometimes reach levels of being infinite, which is not dependent upon the body and where I realize the body is an illusion. But this is very distinct from needing to escape the torture of the body.

I am concerned for her. Do you think this comes from a deep childhood trauma? Have you ever heard of this before? Something about it all sounds familiar but I cannot remember where I've heard of this before. Are there any books or research on this subject? Anyone else who has been through this? Ultimately, do you have any recommendations?

Thank you so much in advance.

[Swagala]

It seems to me like she just has some kind of bad notion towards taking shits. Like she loves everything about life but it's as if taking a shit is something that doesn't belong with it. Feels more like denial or a slight ego problem; separating taking shits away from everything else in life (even herself). The fact that there's this one terrible thing in life makes it seem like it's not perfect. The human body has/needs the function of shitting so, if we weren't the body, it'd be perfect. 

That's my take from it, very interesting situation she has there.

Joke: She's denying taking shits and she feels trapped in her body. She's constipated... I'll see my conceptual self out.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Swagala

[GabrielWallace]

@Swagala

Hahah... But the thing is, she doesn't really "love everything about life." She thinks life is stupid and describes it as torture, particularly being "trapped in the body." She equates the whole experience of being in her physical body with torture, it's just that taking a shit leaves her no space in her mind to 'escape it' as she can when she puts herself into her own loving meditative state.

[Swagala]

Gotcha, just another one of my misreading moments, my apologies.

[Swagala]

To an extent, her situation seems to be relatable. Her meditative states are like that of after tastes from enlightenment moments, which tend to not last too long, as they always talk about. When the after taste disappears, she's back to her normal ego self. Seems like there's an on and off button between her ego state to her meditative state; as if her meditation doesn't even affect her ego at all and always sees life as the same levels of torture (being the victim in life). I personally doubt that's the case. It may only be a matter of time until the ego starts to change. And if it is the case, some variety in her types of meditation might help. It feels like her type of meditation is a way to feel instant bliss than actual ego work. 

And if it is trauma, meditation still seems like a good solution.

Me no doctor.

Edit: Fk me, pretty sure i still mis understood the situation.

So, the problems lies in the fact that she's not able to get into a meditative state when she shits. And the fact that she can't get to that meditative state when taking a shit, pretty much brings back her ego.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Swagala

[GabrielWallace]

@Swagala Thank you for your input. 

Also, one more piece of information for anyone reading this, which may or may not be relevant, is that she also told me that she remembers being in her mother's womb and not wanting to come out, and that she didn't like the experience of being born. I forgot to mention that, and it may well be of profound importance.

[GabrielWallace]

Now that I'm making that connection, I do remember reading about some experiments Stanislav Grof did in this field of relating the birth experience to one's life. I read that book several years ago and I will revisit it now...

Any other ideas from anyone though, still more than welcome! 

[Truth Addict]

@GabrielWallace

I get your point, but I think she's right though.

Being trapped in a limited body is torture, no doubt. But not accepting that is even more torture.

Try to get her convinced of this idea: she's where she is right now because she had gone through all of that "traumatic" past.

If it wasn't for her past, it wouldn't have been possible for her to experience these "peaceful wellsprings".

Insist that she thinks about that, and propose that perhaps this is all for her good.

All is planned by infinite intelligence.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Truth Addict

[noselfnofun]

@GabrielWallace Yeah man this dose not sound good, sounds like a classic case of spiritual bypassing. Isn't the whole point of vipassana meditation to see things how they are? regardless if its good or bad. Might be worth to stop her practice for awhile and do some therapy and work through the emotional wounds so she can face the normal challenges of daily life. Day to day life can be unpleasant but should not been seen as torture, when you start to experience blissful states in meditation it can seem as though in contrast daily life is not as joyful so why go back to it? But the whole point of this work is to train yourself to reach a place that no matter what situation you are in, your at peace within.

[ZZZZ]

I remember the first time I tripped was the first time that I had this notion of "being a slave to my body." It was the first time I experienced existing beyond my body, and I developed this misguided sense that I existed somewhere inside of it. This was a very profound distinction for me (realizing that I wasnt the body), but it wasnt until more contemplation that I refined my worldview and notion of self. 

At the time, I was coming off of a cold, and contemplated the autonomous nervous system (my nose producing tons of mucous, having to use tissues, etc.) when *I* wasnt the one deciding to do it all. It was as if the body decided it was going to do all of these things to survive, and I had no choice in the matter. Of course this provided some utility to me, but I felt very negatively about having to eat, drink, sleep, etc. "against my will" just to continue experiencing life. 

 

It sounds like maybe your friend hasn't completely accepted her relationship with her body, and could be trying to escape some other aspects of reality with her significant meditation sessions. It's a bit bewildering to me, but I figured I'd share my own experiences in regards to her discomfort. Maybe contemplating all of the things our bodies do to allow us to stay in the "wellspring" would change her perspective? Breathing, heart beat, etc. all happen "against our will." In fact, I think she will find that everything does if she contemplates it enough with an open mind.

Edited April 11, 2019 by ZZZZ

[Preetom]

@GabrielWallace

Could you clarify what is the exact type of meditation she does 4-5 hours a day?

Is it a particular meditation or a batch of techniques one after another.

But when all is said and done, her intuition about being trapped in the body is spot on. Its a hideous cancer that acts as the root of pretty much all other afflictions and dissatisfaction in life.

''I am the body"- this is preciously the idea and the corresponding feelings associated with it that almost 99% people constantly keep themselves distracted and busy. The moment they become a little present, the first thing hit them in the face is the nagging and constricted feeling of being a trapped, separate, limited self. And it usually takes years of plowing through this dissatisfaction while staying more and more aware until finally some abiding peace results from consciousness work.

If the medications are promoting her consciousness of being, I'd rather encourage it.

And about the issue of taking poop, I think it is related to a combination of limiting beliefs and the corresponding primal bodily feeling associated with squatting/taking shit. It is very similar to the feeling of being a ground oriented reptile.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Preetom

[AlwaysBeNice]

Yeah, I've heard the idea of 'I am here [ in the body ], then there's space, and then there are other objects', is the description of the deepest layer of the ego/separation, that can fall away, but that has nothing to do with being in or out of the sense of the feeling the body or not afaik.

[Aaron p]

@GabrielWallace "She claims that these days she only ever feels love, and no other emotion (although she's contradicted this a few times without realizing it). She completely lights up when talking about meditation and the 'wellspring' she goes into when she is there, and she says that her only life purpose is to be there. She says that before she learned to meditate and found her 'peaceful wellspring', every day of her life was torture. She's never seen any meaning in life, and still doesn't, but the meditation takes her away from the torture and into love."

- this is classic. Exactly the same thing happened with me. Every day was torture for me, every single day. Meditating takes it away and it becomes the love of your life. When you experience that much pain and something just takes it away, you become obsessed with it. And your saying how she can act strange sometimes, it's because a lot of the pain is still there. Exact same with me.

 

" I asked her to talk more about what she meant, and she told me about how she has "always felt trapped in the body" "

- yeah it's probably some kind of mental illness like anxiety or depression or both. (Turned out I had both)

Ok to me it sounds like there is some deep pain stemming from somewhere. This was, once again, the exact same for me. This kind of pain is very very confusing and disorienting indeed. You could try to get her to open up to a doctor. Explain to her that if she is feeling these negative things it could be that there is anxiety or depression at the root. Very very common, especially now a days. Explain that sometimes people experience very extreme mental and emotional pain and that, if it's reoccurring, then she can get help. I remember for ages I only had meditation and that was the only thing that took the pain away, until I explored medical and professional help. The medication kicked in and I started speaking to counsellors. Now it's much much better. It's probably something like that. Especially anxiety. the nature of anxiety makes a person believe that there are all kinds of things wrong with them, everywhere they look within themselves day she suffering because they are looking through the lens of anxiety. Severe anxiety time lead to extreme discontentment, suffering and u explainable Pain. And it remains hidden. This may be the case, as it was also the case for me