The yoga fallacy ?

[SQAAD]

So basically a Stage Orange guy on my FB list posted a post bashing yoga and citing this study here--> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26645512?fbclid=IwAR1NXVvvOG6dv86D814ZP0lEQ2j0Kigv_3-PUQQPHoga22foPZpPqPiUKp4

He commented : "The yoga fallacy aka

After adjusting for AGE, the association between yoga and all-cause mortality was attenuated and NO LONGER STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT."

& a bunch of his unconscious friends (these guys are all into powerlifting and scientism) jumped on the bandwagon with one of them commenting: ""Life's not the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away." This is why backyard wrestling will always be better than yoga."

 

What's your opinion on that guys? 

Edited April 11, 2019 by SQAAD

[Forestluv]

A few red flags;

”22,598 adult participants, 240 participants engaged in yoga”

They had a sample size of 22,598 and only 240 participated in yoga? Are you kidding me?? 22,598 participants and they only had 240 that participated in yoga? That is only 1% of the sample size! Plus, they only stated the overall number of deaths. Based on the sample sizes, that would mean about 3 deaths in the yoga group. That is absurdly small.

They had a highly significant P-value of 0.006 that dropped to an insignificant p-value of 0.6 after age adjustment because their yoga sample size was so small. Good grief.

They had to do all cause mortality because the yoga mortality was so small and they couldn’t filter out accidental deaths like car accidents. . Very few yoga people died - and they didn’t state the causes. Of the approximately 3 yoga deaths, two could have been automobile accidents for goodness sake. The tiny amount of yoga deaths is skewing the data. They had to do “all death causes” because they had too few yoga deaths. That’s why they got a highly significant P that disappeared after age adjustment. They didn't have a large enough yoga sample size. 

Plus it’s in an obscure journal - with I predict low quality standards.

I don’t have access to the full article, yet this smells like poorly conducted science to me. I wouldn’t give it much weight. Peeps: don’t believe something just because it has “science” stamped on it. Especially if it is used to support one’s existing ideology. 

[Leo Gura]

Lol

It does not warrant a serious response.

You might as well go quoting Shakespeare to mules.

[pluto]

Yoga is one of the most ancient practices for general health and spirituality. Its super effective because its like meditation and exercise put in one as you focus on the breath and inhale/exhale while doing internal/external movements and most of the poses and exercises help unwind and release/re-tune energy centers and specifically the spine(which is basically the CPU of the body), when the spine is healthy the whole body heals and can function at optimal levels. Yoga and similar practices like Tai chi, Qi gong ect.. will work parts of the body you've never felt before and when your body( the vessel) is active, alkaline and alive, your connection to spirit/source becomes very strong and eventually effortless thus your raises overall awareness of the true nature of existence itself.

We do Yoga so we release stagnant energy and re center ourselves then after the session we meditate and they are perfect for each other, if our mind is busy, if our body is stagnant and impulsive its going to be extremely challenging to meditate effectively. You don't wanna be sitting down for hours on end trying to get deeper states of meditation, you want to be able to tap in within minutes and yoga and other practices beforehand prepare your body/mind for this tapping in.

You don't have to do much poses, just watch Felines they do most of the advanced poses naturally. They do them multiple times per day and they are among the most calm yet most agile creatures. Bruce Lee also studied and expressed a similar philosophy to be relaxed and calm is to be aware thus you will always be one step ahead because you are more present.

Hope this helps

 

[SQAAD]

8 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

 

They had a highly significant P-value of 0.006 that dropped to an insignificant p-value of 0.6 after age adjustment because their yoga sample size was so small. Good grief.

 

@Serotoninluv  Great analysis!

[Nahm]

@SQAAD It’s just not possible to explain to you the degree to which what is for you is a one off situation. 

[Wyatt]

9 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I don’t have access to the full article, yet this smells like poorly conducted science to me. I wouldn’t give it much weight. Peeps: don’t believe something just because it has “science” stamped on it. Especially if it is used to support one’s existing ideology. 

PREACH

[llumin]

I have access to pubmed through uni, the conclusion words it a little bit better. 

 

4

Discussion

The main finding of this large, nationally-representative prospective cohort study was that the unadjusted model suggested a protective survival benefit among those engaging in yoga, but the results were no longer significant in an adjusted model. As a result, the findings of this brief report are in accordance with a recent review highlighting minimal effects of yoga on mortality, exercise capacity and health-related quality of life. 4 This should not, however, diminish the potential health-related effects (e.g., reduced oxidative stress) of yoga in some vulnerable populations (e.g., hypertensive older adults), which has been demonstrated elsewhere. 2

Notable strengths of this short report include the national prospective study and the relatively reasonable follow-up period. Given the relatively low engagement in yoga in this national sample ( N = 240), future studies targeting individuals who actively participate in yoga are needed. It is possible that the relatively small number of participants engaging in yoga may have rendered inadequate statistical power to detect an association. However, an unadjusted association between yoga and mortality was observed. Like most prospective studies, another limitation is the single baseline assessment of yoga within the past 30 days. It is possible that yoga patterns could have changed during the follow-up period. Future prospective representative samples employing a larger sample of yoga participants and evaluating changes in yoga patterns are needed before strong conclusions can be made regarding the potential yoga-mortality relationship.

[Forestluv]

43 minutes ago, llumin said:

Given the relatively low engagement in yoga in this national sample ( N = 240), future studies targeting individuals who actively participate in yoga are needed. It is possible that the relatively small number of participants engaging in yoga may have rendered inadequate statistical power to detect an association. 

Well at least they somewhat acknowledged this deficiency. Yet it’s not just “possible”, it did lack statistical power. Mostly because the yoga group deaths were so low (perhaps 3 or so?). And they had to do all death counts because their sample size was so low. They couldn’t filter out irrelevant death causes like traffic accidents.

This looks like an incomplete data set that somehow got published in a low level journal. One of my concerns in science is that publication standards are dropping and stuff like this gets through the peer-review filter. If it was even peer-reviewed. 

[d0ornokey]

I spent a lot of time arguing with people about science vs religion (in favor of science) 

Then I grew and spent time arguing spirituality vs science (trying to point out the fallacies and dogmas of science) 

What I am learning with great awareness is when orange is stuck in its paradigm. He is stuck. No amount of arguing works. They're simply not open-minded to it. You start to pick up on queues as to when they're open to listening and when they're not 

When theyre reqlly angey and spouting studies, they're not open-minded 

When they keep dancing in their argument, they're not open to learning 

When they're in high defense mode, they're not open to learning 

Learning occurs when the mind is open to learning and certain states prevent learning (as I mentioned above) 

They lose their curiosity and intent to learn 

[SFRL]

On 4/10/2019 at 9:42 PM, SQAAD said:

So basically a Stage Orange guy on my FB list posted a post bashing yoga and citing this study here--> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26645512?fbclid=IwAR1NXVvvOG6dv86D814ZP0lEQ2j0Kigv_3-PUQQPHoga22foPZpPqPiUKp4

He commented : "The yoga fallacy aka

After adjusting for AGE, the association between yoga and all-cause mortality was attenuated and NO LONGER STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT."

& a bunch of his unconscious friends (these guys are all into powerlifting and scientism) jumped on the bandwagon with one of them commenting: ""Life's not the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away." This is why backyard wrestling will always be better than yoga."

 

What's your opinion on that guys? 

It's indeed a lot better to be sitting on the couch with a bucket of Icecream.