Drunk nonduality nondoership?

[thesmileyone]

So it is Wednesday and tonight I got drunk again yay. (It has been a week).

Now on the spiritual path many people preach "addictions" and "bad shit" and "alcohol" and "carbs" and how all things have to be avoided to be "enlightened". Lol.

But nondoership. You see, at some point, you become aware there is no you and you don't have control over what you do. You are just along for the ride!

Well I am drunk, so should I be feeling guilty for drinking? If so...how do I feel guilty for being drunk when I am not a doer, I didn't get drunk as there is no I to get drunk. Consciousness used to to get drunk to experience this moment, as a drunk.

Do you see the problem here? On one hand these teacher preach nonduality and nondoership. On the same hand, they preach how you gotta give up all of lifes pleasures to become enlightened.

MAKES. NO. SENSE.

Therefore, is a teacher can't even distinguish the hypocrasy in that, how can you trust them at all?

[tecladocasio]

The real question is , why did you drink in the first place ? hahah

[Forestluv]

This is just my take. . . 

There is recognition that the self is an illusion and there is no "doer". That's it, end of story. No more thought story. The cowbell guy with the thought story puts his cowbell down and there is simply being. . .  Yet, then the self tries to reclaim ownership with a new thought story. . . "Wait a minute, if there is no 'doer', then I can do anything!!". To me, it looks like a self trying to regain control of the narrative.

[Aakash]

 I would say that they say to give up life's pleasures before you have found peace, to show you how desires exactly lead to suffering, once you understand this it is your decision to give up or not

and i would say that the piece of advice that leo gave is all in all not to be taken seriously like a pinch of salt until you prove it for yourself somehow because you get into the terratory that your actions are god's will without realising what god is first, so you have a second voice over the first like: 

i should drink , ohh this is god will 

i should have a party, ohh this is gods will 

instead of 

i should drink , i should have a party.. the gods will is in the background, it shouldn't be forefront of your mind in a way. 

you shouldn't feel guilty, in fact, you should do it as many times until you realise it won't make you happy, this is what ends up promting everyone to find something else to fill the void 

[thesmileyone]

Thanks!

It does make me happy at the moment. It's like a disassociative should be. My ego takes a plunge off a cliff whilst drunk. Then comes back when i sober up. I do stuff for people, donate monies I wouldn't usually, express my love without fear of looking bad, when drunk, that my ego won't allow when in control. I try telling people this and they say that's dillusion because their experience says otherwise. but for me, it's the ultimate ego death.

Furthermore, lately, it's been rough to live. headaches, anxiety, old trauma being cleared out. Not the only person to experience this over the last 4 days. It's nice to step away from all that for a few hours.

[Aakash]

@thesmileyone it could be a great escapism, even i have used it for that purpose, 

however, even if all these things may be true to you and it makes you feel good- that's fine 

but you should bear in mind , that eventually you should try not to rely on substance induced states for your whole life 

its like a person on medication , if there's a possibility for them to function without the use of the tablet, they should ultimately aim for that. 

but like i said don't feel guilty about it, self-pity is a difficult thing to deal with, instead i would suggest tackling it in a more positive way if possible. But like everything in this world, its difficult as fuck. 

[Paul92]

@Serotoninluv  Hmmm. But surely, more than anything, we know who we are? You can identify with yourself better than anything. What you are like. What your traits are. What makes you happy. What makes you sad. We just know this, don't we?

I can see that it is absolutely nothing material. It can't be.

Maybe it is a soul. Maybe it is. I just don't think you can rid yourself of 'you'. It's madness. It's an impossible task.

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, thesmileyone said:

So it is Wednesday and tonight I got drunk again yay. (It has been a week).

Now on the spiritual path many people preach "addictions" and "bad shit" and "alcohol" and "carbs" and how all things have to be avoided to be "enlightened". Lol.

But nondoership. You see, at some point, you become aware there is no you and you don't have control over what you do. You are just along for the ride!

Well I am drunk, so should I be feeling guilty for drinking? If so...how do I feel guilty for being drunk when I am not a doer, I didn't get drunk as there is no I to get drunk. Consciousness used to to get drunk to experience this moment, as a drunk.

Do you see the problem here? On one hand these teacher preach nonduality and nondoership. On the same hand, they preach how you gotta give up all of lifes pleasures to become enlightened.

MAKES. NO. SENSE.

Therefore, is a teacher can't even distinguish the hypocrasy in that, how can you trust them at all?

Sounds like you got a lot of frustration with being told what to do.  You may even feel like these "these teachers" may be right and you want to defend your actions (which don't need to be defended in the first place) since again you don't want to be told what to do, yet there may still be a little part of you looking for what your supposed to be doing and how your supposed to do it.  You may even feel like if you can prove them wrong you'll feel ok about what your choosing to do.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Mu_

[Forestluv]

37 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Serotoninluv  Hmmm. But surely, more than anything, we know who we are? You can identify with yourself better than anything. What you are like. What your traits are. What makes you happy. What makes you sad. We just know this, don't we?

I can see that it is absolutely nothing material. It can't be.

Maybe it is a soul. Maybe it is. I just don't think you can rid yourself of 'you'. It's madness. It's an impossible task.

Rather than trying to get rid of you, I've found it more helpful to simply relax the you. For me, it comes back to that darn cowbell guy in the audience. Trying to make him stop playing the cowbell or trying to kick him out of the cafe just doesn't seem to work well. I've found it better to simply ask him to settle down and put the cowbell down from time to time and let the other band members do their thing.

For example, a year ago I estimated 99% of my life was spent thinking and identifying with thoughts and stories. It was just too much. It drove me crazy.I had been trying to figure all this shit out and was immersed in thought stories. It was miserable. Yet trying to have 0% thought stories was overwhelming. It was too much expectations and pressure. So, I imagined "What if I reduced the thought stories from 99% of my life to 50% of my life?". This seemed like a reasonable, doable goal. I practiced throughout last summer and felt like I reached that goal (or was in the ballpark). I can't tell you how much of my life changed. My quality of life and health skyrocketed form that reduction.

That's just my experience. I'm sure it broke all sorts of spiritual rules and was spiritually incorrect, yet it really helped my mind-body out.

[Mu_]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Rather than trying to get rid of you, I've found it more helpful to simply relax the you. For me, it comes back to that darn cowbell guy in the audience. Trying to make him stop playing the cowbell or trying to kick him out of the cafe just doesn't seem to work well. I've found it better to simply ask him to settle down and put the cowbell down from time to time and let the other band members do their thing.

For example, a year ago I estimated 99% of my life was spent thinking and identifying with thoughts and stories. It was just too much. It drove me crazy.I had been trying to figure all this shit out and was immersed in thought stories. It was miserable. Yet trying to have 0% thought stories was overwhelming. It was too much expectations and pressure. So, I imagined "What if I reduced the thought stories from 99% of my life to 50% of my life?". This seemed like a reasonable, doable goal. I practiced throughout last summer and felt like I reached that goal (or was in the ballpark). I can't tell you how much of my life changed. My quality of life and health skyrocketed form that reduction.

That's just my experience. I'm sure it broke all sorts of spiritual rules and was spiritually incorrect, yet it really helped my mind-body out.

@Serotoninluv

Did someone say cowbell....

 

 

[Forestluv]

@Mu_

That rascal @Nahm started me down a cowbell rabbit hole. . . 

It's actually been really helpful though. I didn't realize how loud the cowbell guy was in my mind. . . Reducing the volume of cowbell from 99 to 50 is amazing. . . It always space for magic to enter.

[Paul92]

@Serotoninluv I'm glad that worked for you and you have found peace. Hand on heart, very happy for you.

I know what you mean about thought stories. My mind just can't let it go though.

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, thesmileyone said:

Do you see the problem here? On one hand these teacher preach nonduality and nondoership. On the same hand, they preach how you gotta give up all of lifes pleasures to become enlightened.

I would make a distinction here between self-centered, self-need based pleasures and life's pleasures. They are on two different levels for me. My self did not want to give up self-need and self-centered pleasures. Yet when it did and life started pleasuring itself through my mind-body.. . yowzers. Batten down the hatches cause things get magnificent and magical. . . It's like the universe having sex with itself. No words. . . 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Serotoninluv I'm glad that worked for you and you have found peace. Hand on heart, very happy for you.

I know what you mean about thought stories. My mind just can't let it go though.

Perhaps try what I did. I got exhausted and asked for a break from the thought stories. Not all day long, just some breaks. Like I would do yoga and ask for the next 20min., can I just get a temporary break from the thought stories? For me, it helped. Once I started seeing what comes prior to the thought stories, I liked it. It felt right and I wanted more of it. There was still resistance, of course. It's step by step. It took me three months of practice to reduce thought stories by 50%.

And it's really just the "me, me, me" thought stories that caused my mind-body turmoil. When I walked through nature, I would get curious about how all the beautiful nature exists in harmony. I would admire dragonflies and get curious about what consciousness is like for them and whether we can connect. I'm sure some thoughts arose, yet those don't cause my mind-body problems. 

[Paul92]

@Serotoninluv  I was never a huge thinker until I came across nonduality or the 'new age' etc. My issue is that, I really don't have anyone to discuss things with, that I can trust. My father is on his own path, but while he preaches everything that a spiritual path seems to dictate, he does it in a very forceful and aggressive way. Which seems quite absurd to me. He's not got a lot of patience. I phoned him this week to come and see me (I've never done that in my life). I spilled out everything. Told him I was suicidal etc. He didn't seem to take me that serious and got quite aggressive. What he was saying might make sense to a lot of people here, but if anything, I think looking at it now, it has pushed a wedge between us.

Would you say you identify with yourself today? Like, do you feel that person you always thought you was is still sat within your head? Or are you 'vacant', for want of a better word...

Edited April 10, 2019 by Paul92

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv Awesome.       Put that cowbell on the ox so you can hear him comin a mile away.

[Forestluv]

29 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Serotoninluv  I was never a huge thinker until I came across nonduality or the 'new age' etc. My issue is that, I really don't have anyone to discuss things with, that I can trust. 

Would you say you identify with yourself today? Like, do you feel that person you always thought you was is still sat within your head? Or are you 'vacant', for want of a better word...

I don't think this is a unique situation. I only have two people in "real life" that I can talk nonduality and one of them is a bit unstable, so really just one person I can talk with on a regular basis. And that is after about a year of searching. . . I spent two years with nobody to talk to about it in real life. Just people online and I traveled to Peru to live in a high conscious community for a while.

The question about personal identification is hard to answer. I would say about 70% of what most people consider the "person" has dissolved. For example, in the past when I went out with people, I would talk a lot about me and my story with an underlying intent to serve self needs - to look good, get approval, get the gal to like me etc. I was really immersed and identified with the story. Now, it just kinda feels like a movie I watched or a book I read. Somebody might ask where I grew up or what I do in life. It just sounds differently to me now, like I am talking about a movie character. I also don't have all the opinions and beliefs I used to have. There isn't such a desire for things to go "my way". I'm much more fluid with the flow of life. Yet, I talk about "my" story often in spiritual contexts - yet it is more like talking about a movie I watched. I tell "personal stories" as examples, because I know them best. They can be useful for human interaction and connection.

Letting go of the attachment and identification was really hard for me. My mind-body experienced a lot of anxiety and fear. Especially about the unknown. Yet walking through that and letting go, is sooo much more peaceful and easy-going. Trying to protect and maintain a psychological self is sooo draining and causes so much suffering. I would say that the personality is still around in a sense. I used to think that I needed to get rid of anything "personal" and I needed to be like some empty no-self monk that was in a state of empty bliss all the time. . . That isn't my experience. My mind-body still gets grouchy. It still gets annoyed. It still experiences fear, love and sorrow. It is part of the human experience. Yet the attachment, identification and desire to meet self-needs and wants has greatly reduced. This opened up a whole new realm I never new existed.

I should also probably add that my environment is pretty calm and peaceful. I have a steady job and feel financially secure. I live alone in a quiet house and neighborhood. I don't have the responsibilities of being a parent. So, in that respect it may be easier for my mind-body to relax and go with the flow.

Who knows, I'm just following intuition and "winging it" at this point. . . It's just getting created out of thin air and I don't know where this train is heading. . . 

 

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Serotoninluv     Put that cowbell on the ox so you can hear him comin a mile away.

Duuude, I can do that??!! That's spiritually legal??!!

Oh man, it's time to saddle up. . .  

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv ?

[Paul92]

@Serotoninluv  Thanks for that. I enjoyed reading that. It seems like it is really working for you, so I can't knock that at all. I'd love to get into a similar place, considering where I am right now. I just don't really know where to start, and I'm not sure what progress would even look like. I have pretty much the same environment, too. So that should be helpful. Just feel lost at the moment though and it's hard to see a way out. I feel/think/believe I have seen through an illusion that I can't unsee. The only issue is, I loved that world beyond words. It's hard to give it up.

Anyway, hijacked the thread. My apologies.