Why am I not the brain?

[Aakash]

@David Hammond because thats the language i would use to describe the "thing" , for others to understand

 

[Aakash]

@David Hammond well its consciousness in form, firstly then the description of a math paper and materials like wood and paper secondy. all answers would ultimately lead back to consciousness

[now is forever]

5 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@David Hammond well its consciousness in form, firstly then the description of a math paper and materials like wood and paper secondy. all answers would ultimately lead back to consciousness

it’s all energy. it’s all data. it’s all talking you just don’t know how much yet because you can’t read it all.

[Forestluv]

There isn't even a "present moment". That is also part of the illusion. The brain's visual, auditory, olfactory, tactile and motor systems all work at different rates. For example, the visual system is slower than the auditory system, since the visual system is more complex. The various systems are out of sync, yet create an illusion that it's all happening in one "now" - this has practical value to help the human function within the illusion. All that coordination takes about 0.5 seconds, so what you perceive as "now" actually is already in the past. "Now" happened a half second ago. . . 

[Nahm]

11 minutes ago, tecladocasio said:

@Nahm Yes , this thoughts that i'm refering are experiences . The ''almost unconscious'' is because I don't really decide for every particle of my body ,my conscious experience is limited , but I decided to start walking , and keep walking , and it don't require much thinking , because i'm very used to walk . 

I’m understanding you more, but I still don’t have clarity on your experience. 

You are saying these thoughts which move all the muscles of the legs when you walk  “are experiences” , or that you directly experience those thoughts?  

What are those leg movement directive thoughts like? Can you compare them, or describe your experience of them a little? 

 

[now is forever]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

There isn't even a "present moment". That is also part of the illusion. The brains visual, auditory, olfactory, tactile and motor systems all work at different rates. For example, the visual system is slower than the auditory system, since the visual system is more complex. The various systems are out of sync, yet create an illusion that it's all happening in one "now". All that coordination takes about 0.5 seconds, so what you perceive as "now" actually is already in the past. "Now" happened a half second ago. . . 

did you measure that with a timer? is this really accurate?

[Aakash]

@David Hammond i wouldn't have been able to understand what you said until i had a realisation today , 

yes it is definitely a mystery 

that will never be solved! 

but do you look in awe? or do you just being in awe 

i became fear for the first time today, it was terrifying :') , can't imagine what its like to be awe

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, now is forever said:

did you measure that with a timer? is this really accurate?

Neuroscientists have. For example, even the best world-class sprinters need about 0.2 seconds to respond to the sound of the starter gun (yet the subjective experience is that the sound and muscle response or both "Now". And that is humans that have devoted their life to lower this reaction time. These races are often won in thousandths of seconds, so improving this reaction time is major emphasis for sprinters. . . The visual system is slower than the auditory system. And coordinating it all together to give an illusion that it is all synced together takes time. It's pretty straightforward to measure each individual sensory system, harder to measure the time lag to synchronize them all. I haven't read the original research on that, yet an average of 0.5 sec. seems reasonable. I could see highly trained and efficient brains getting down to 0.3 or 0.4 seconds. Yet I can't see below 0.3 being feasible. Now you are getting down to only one or two sensory systems. Simple reflex arcs in the PNS are much faster, because there is no CNS processing. For example, touching a hot stove and pulling your hand away does not involve the CNS, just a simple PNS reflex arc.

[now is forever]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Neuroscientists have. For example, even the best world-class sprinters need about 0.2 seconds to respond to the sound of the starter gun (yet the subjective experience is that the sound and muscle response or both "Now". The visual system is slower. And coordinating it all together to give an illusion that it is all synced together takes time. It's pretty straightforward to measure each individual sensory system, harder to measure to time lag to synchronize them all. I haven't read the original research on that, yet an average of 0.5 sec. seems reasonable. I could see highly trained and efficient brains getting down to 0.3 or 0.4 seconds. Yet I can't see below 0.3 being feasible. Now you are getting down to simple reflex arcs in the PNS, with no CNS processing. For example, touching a hot stove and pulling your hand away does not involve the CNS, just a simple PNS reflex.

well definitely not lightspeed 

[tecladocasio]

@Nahm no no , the experience i'm saying is the decision of walking , I decided to move my leg . How the leg moves , the muscle fibers with the glycogen i don't know I can't experience exactly that hahah . 

16 minutes ago, Nahm said:

What are those leg movement directive thoughts like? Can you compare them, or describe your experience of them a little? 

Now you are writing , what makes you write what you write ? What decides what words you will use it . You decide , but the words that you are choosing are associations with some experiences you are having . I don't precisely know what words will come out , but I know my experience . Remember when you want to say something and don't really know the word to express it . It's a experience (you know what you want to express) and you just can't find the word to associate with it . You can do the oposite : repeat some phrase but never experience what the phrase refers to . 

Edited April 10, 2019 by tecladocasio

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, now is forever said:

well definitely not lightspeed 

Indeed, it's surprisingly slow to me. I suppose evolution selected for higher processing speeds and it's good enough for us.

Now I'm curious which organism has the fastest processing speed. I would imagine hawks have very rapid visual processing speeds since visual timing is so critical to their survival.

[now is forever]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Indeed, it's surprising slow to me. I suppose evolution selected for higher processing speeds. I suppose it's good enough for us.

Now I'm curious which organism has the fastest processing speed. I would imagine hawks have very rapid visual processing speeds since timing is so critical to their survival.

i guess some fish. but then not eyesight. they have sensors to react/feel water pressures/movement.

Edited April 10, 2019 by now is forever

[Nahm]

 

@tecladocasio

What about language? I understand the experience of thoughts arising, and then those thoughts being expressed linguistically. 

But do you experience a different type of thought - a thought prior to those thoughts which get expressed?

 

 

 

[tecladocasio]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

But do you experience a different type of thought - a thought prior to those thoughts which get expressed?

@Nahm  I Think no hahah . But the thinking experience can go very deep . Without any language . I find really helpful and fascinating to contemplate the purpose of the ''voice in the head'' the internal dialogue . It gave me really nice insights .

[Forestluv]

18 minutes ago, now is forever said:

i guess some fish. but then not eyesight. they have sensors to react/feel water pressures/movement.

Some fish and birds react to stimuli within communities faster than their individual nervous system can respond. For example fish swarms and bird murmurations. This opens the door into communal consciousness which I also find really interesting. . . 

[Aakash]

@David Hammond i see yeah that makes sense, but what about awe, awe sticks ? 

[Aakash]

@David Hammond exactly so when your looking at the wall for x hours, would it be awe or peace more likely to prevail as an awaken being , i thought it would just be peace 

because awe would be awe at itself, the beauty of itself is what you mean in context, just so i understand. 

[Nahm]

@tecladocasio ?? What is the significance of that apparent difference though?  That there is no direct experience of a “prior to” the thought experienced - yet some scientific experiments implicate that there is. That there is no experience of thoughts moving the leg muscles, yet in the study of a brain and body, again some scientific experiments implicate that there is. The choice, “I’ll go for a walk now”, or “I’ll make some tea now”...what does the actuality here really reveal?    

......”Why you’re not the brain”...?

 

[now is forever]

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Some fish and birds react to stimuli within communities faster than their individual nervous system can respond. For example fish swarms and bird murmurations. This opens the door into communal consciousness which I also find really interesting. . . 

i sometimes wonder if birds speak to trees, and if trees speak to birds. as both seem to murmur.

[mandyjw]

36 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Indeed, it's surprisingly slow to me. I suppose evolution selected for higher processing speeds and it's good enough for us.

Now I'm curious which organism has the fastest processing speed. I would imagine hawks have very rapid visual processing speeds since visual timing is so critical to their survival.

But seeing them so relaxed high in the sky riding the air currents is when they are the most beautiful.