David Spero - Video - Reality Check

[Arhattobe]

Good video. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Arhattobe

[AlwaysBeNice]

Fascinating guy. Some elaboration for those who might get a grim: 'suffering can't end' vibe from it, it doesn't deny suffering ending in realization, just that relative pains can still arise, but: 'It doesn't even matter what goes on in your waking state mind, you could be the most miserable person on the planet, it doesn't even matter, truly', also the videos 'Moksha', 'Samsara', 'dissolving the world' elaborate on it.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by AlwaysBeNice

[FocusOnTruth]

David Spero is so real in this video, and I totally agree with regards to most teachers.

When I started walking the path, I spent far too much time trying to force myself to see perfection/problems being a projection of the mind when it didn't match my experience. I've found that merely telling yourself that it's all good isn't very productive, and instead of attempting to negate suffering by some sort of focus on beyondness/bliss/ love, etc. it's better to see it for what it is and just be as honest as possible, which isn't the same as the opposite extreme of denial via spiritual bypassing in which you indulge and self-pity. 

Pain has been such a great teacher and its lessons in seeing what you fail to see as so direct if we only listen. It's a necessary part of the path.

Edited April 11, 2019 by FocusOnTruth

[Arhattobe]

Pain is the greatest teacher if we let it be. Pre and post non duality.

When we have an agenda though. Truth becomes irrelevant. 

[FocusOnTruth]

4 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

When we have an agenda though. Truth becomes irrelevant. 

 

Is that supposed to be one sentence?

 

5 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

Pain is the greatest teacher if we let it be. Pre and post non duality.

1

For sure

[Arhattobe]

@FocusOnTruth yep lol. I’m tired lol.

[Leo Gura]

What he's saying has value, especially for newbie and intermediate students.

But at the same time, suffering IS a conceptual activity and it can be transcended or stopped. It is something you are doing and you can stop doing it. This does mean that you stop feeling, just the opposite, you must feel it fully, with total consciousness. That total consciousness is what allows you to experience the suffering as self-constructed activity, at which point it becomes conscious and it ceases to be suffering.

This requires very high levels of consciousness which even most awakened people in the West do not have.

But the most advanced practitioners develop it. Which is how monks can do self-immolation.

So the deconstruction of suffering is not merely marketing. It's just unattainable for most people because this requires super-human levels of consciousness which only the most hardcore practitioners will attain.

The paradox is, by trying to end suffering you end up creating suffering. So that's not a good attitude in this work. Trying to always be in a positive state is not going to work well. If you really want to end suffering you must completely stop caring what state you're in, even if you're getting tortured, you have to be okay with that state. It's REALLY hard to be that conscious. But it can be done. Just don't go chasing it.

[Arhattobe]

The issue with some things is not their degree of truthfulness, but how people perceive said things that are said. 

Saying suffering is a conceptual thing or mind created, and one can stop doing it.

Will make people that don’t understand how deep subconscious ideation goes. Believe by saying “They are in the present moment”, they are now above such limitation. Which will then hinder further growth and progress. 

 

[Leo Gura]

Which is why I say it's an advanced thing requiring 1000s of hours of practice.

Then I get criticized that, "Leo, enlightement doesn't take thousands of hours."

[Arhattobe]

Awakening, realising non duality, and stabilising in it (stream entry) doesn’t have to take too long. People often confuse that for full enlightenment or arhathood.

Most the “enlightened” teachers are so very far from the actual thing. 

[whoareyou]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Which is why I say it's an advanced thing requiring 1000s of hours of practice.

Then I get criticized that, "Leo, enlightement doesn't take thousands of hours."

You can't possibly know if it takes 1000 hours or 100 hours, can you? By saying it would take "x amount of hours" is already misleading, because you are implying that enlightenment is something that 1) Can be attained , and 2) Something to be attained in the future. Ironically, you will never have the "enlightenment", because you have already made it into a future goal. Just look at the all the seekers who have been seeking for 10s of years. 

Eckhart has a perfect explanation, which even you LEO don't seem to fully get yet:

 

 

[tecladocasio]

2 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

You can't possibly know if it takes 1000 hours or 100 hours, can you? By saying it would take "x amount of hours" is already misleading, because you are implying that enlightenment is something that 1) Can be attained , and 2) Something to be attained in the future. Ironically, you will never have the "enlightenment", because you have already made it into a future goal. Just look at the all the seekers who have been seeking for 10s of years. 

@whoareyou @whoareyou  Exactly ! 

[Arhattobe]

You guys are fairly clueless as to what stabalization in basic non duality is, and how far that is from full enlightenment.

Watching a tolle video doesn’t change that.  He is pretty unaware of how deep the rabbit hole goes too.

I am not the only one saying that either. Ramaji puts him in the first stage of enlightenment. Jan esmann thinks he isn’t too advanced either, but why listen to everyone I just mentioned. You watched a tolle video, and had an awakening once. You know enlightenment and reality like the back of your hand. 

[tecladocasio]

5 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

He is pretty unaware of how deep the rabbit hole goes too.

@Arhattobe OR you are clueless of how simple it is and is making your own hurdles in your path . Just a consideration .

[JohnnyBravo]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What he's 

The paradox is, by trying to end suffering you end up creating suffering. So that's not a good attitude in this work. Trying to always be in a positive state is not going to work well. If you really want to end suffering you must completely stop caring what state you're in, even if you're getting tortured, you have to be okay with that state. It's REALLY hard to be that conscious. But it can be done. Just don't go chasing it.

I find this helpful and I agree. I know Leo youre using the context of consciousness, but even in the simpler topic of moods/emotions, I find this to be true.

There is a different school of thought and online group i am a part of where the basic principle for a happy life is **be in as good a mood as possible.**

......And I have found that the neurotic drive and obsession with feeling happy and positive and amazing all the time to be the biggest chore and burden in my existence. Striving to be happy and putting pressure on myself to be happy just makes me angry or miserable if the effort is wrong.

There is almost a tabboo on being okay, and relaxed about feeling bits of depression, guilt, sadness, rage from time to time.

I did a 3 week meditation retreat about 2 months ago, and the biggest change that happened (without my desiring) was this insight:

*I dont care what mood I am in anymore.*

And for me there is an intense freedom with that. I am allowed and free to feel even the lows of life. How beautiful.

[JohnnyBravo]

*To end off.

Thankyou for your video Cult Psychology part 2.

As you have hinted, yes, cults are now going to be an online phenomenon more and more.

This self-help group I have mentioned.......woah a ton of groupthink has developed and the $ prices for access to the forum have increased. I think i hit my last patience with it and am about to leave.

[whoareyou]

49 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

You guys are fairly clueless as to what stabalization in basic non duality is, and how far that is from full enlightenment.

Watching a tolle video doesn’t change that.  He is pretty unaware of how deep the rabbit hole goes too.

I am not the only one saying that either. Ramaji puts him in the first stage of enlightenment. Jan esmann thinks he isn’t too advanced either, but why listen to everyone I just mentioned. You watched a tolle video, and had an awakening once. You know enlightenment and reality like the back of your hand. 

I didn't say watching a Tolle video would get you the "full enlightenment". I posted an example of a great explanation of what it actually is, as opposed to what it is not.

I have not heard of those 2 people you mentioned. But as far as I know, actual "enlightened" teachers don't put other teachers into categories, such as "first stage", "2nd stage", etc or give their opinion on one's advancement. There is no possible way that know who is actually "enlightened" and who is "not".  That alone is already a red flag for me, when it comes to those 2 teachers you mentioned.

You seem to be trapped in "spiritual seeking", with all of the conceptualizing and intellectualizing of "enlightenment". Goes back to my point - until you drop the seeking and drop the idea that "enlightenment" is something to be attained in the future, you will not get to "enlightenment".  You are not alone, there are thousands of seekers seeking for years.

[Arhattobe]

@whoareyou They do. Buddhism has stages. Sufism has stages. Zen has stages.

Modern teachers that talk about stages Ramaji, David spero, Jan esmann, Sat shree, Maharishi Mahesh yogi the founder of the tm movement. 

“You” “don’t” “know” “how” “deep” “the” “rabbit” “hole” “goes”

[whoareyou]

@Arhattobe That is not what I said, read again.

[Leo Gura]

There is far more to this work than one enlightenment.

Neo-Adavaita is dangerously oversimplified. You are never going to master consciousness through something like Neo-advaita.

To master consciousness will take you tens of thousands of hours. Not just 1000. Some of you guys keep not understanding this.