Vaporhuasca vs vaporized 5 Meo NN DMT.

[Corpus]

Hi there.

The title is not a alluding to a direct comparison, but the inspiration for it derives, in part, from the observation that having witnessed neophytes using both DMT (as caapi changa) and 5 Meo (as Bufo Alvarius toad venom),  all 3 such individuals rated DMT as more amazing and profound. Admittedly, the sample size is not large, but it prompted some reflection on my part, along the lines that ones previous experience (which thus governs expectations) and the innately human criterion of profound reliance on visual perception can serve as an obstacle to evaluating whatever experience one has been blessed with.

Having experienced oral and vaporized DMT many times before the chance to experience 5 Meo crossed my path, I concur with most who have savoured the latter and  would regard it as effecting an experience more profound than the former. What both do have in common in my estimation is having the same requirement to utterly surrender to the process as it unfolds, and in some ways holding on to the mindset of submission is more of a feat with DMT because it typically does not breakthrough to a point of singularity which 5 Meo can evoke where the concept of surrender becomes a nostalgic notion.

So, I hear you ask, where does vaporhuasca enter the picture?

My single experience of vaporhusaca consisted of oral ingestion of the pharmaceutical RIMA, moclobemide, at a dose of 300mg followed some 2 hours later by 30mg of freebase DMT, vaporized in a Glass VaporGenie via a single inhalation. Of course, all salient precautions need to be taken when using such a MAOI-A in terms of possible interactions with many compounds and this does require some diligent preparatory research. This combination provides 45 minutes in breakthrough territory where the possibility of being "a mindful observer" is not an option, as one is drenched in cascades of information which is relentless, unrestrained and beyond resisting if one hopes to traverse the territory with a modicum of sane functioning afterwards. The information was imparted by what I could only describe as "Not I", an extraneous source which was ancient, wise and masterful; the visual aspect of which I retain the merest memory was as if a lens had been utilised to alter the focus which rendered the impressive standard-DMT visuals into concretions which were beyond the HD of the norm.

The end-point of the experience, the pinnacle, gave some of the insights of the 5 Meo peak, but if you imagine the latter as being a turbo-charged elevator to the heights, the vaporhusaca was like being forcefully dragged up the numerous flights of stairs to the same podium. Much more jarring and demanding, a different kind of labour and one which, if someone held a gun to my head and compelled me to the same combination again or alternatively 5 Meo in a pipe, I would without hesitation opt for the latter.   

5 Meo has on occasion been described as a shortcut to "the gnosis" and I would by and large agree, and whilst shortcuts have their utility, it would seem that vaporhuasca is even more of an obscure venture and one which, I firmly believe, has a firm role in filling in the blanks which exist in the "suburbs" of the infinite void. Needless to say, this work is advanced but I would suggest offers an instructive route to these oh-so far reaches, even if experienced only the once.   

 

[outlandish]

Very interesting. MAOI + vapourised DMT, sounds wild. I don't think I'd be up for that, but perhaps some day... a 45 minute voyage to DMT land would be extremely intense.

Note to readers: combining psychedelics with an MAOI can be risky and you really need to inform yourself thoroughly before attempting this type of combo.

If you don't already know, ayahuasca is a brew that combines a MAO Inhibitor (MAOI) plant with a DMT plant. MAO is an enzyme that your body produces to protect it from various organic molecules, including deactivating molecules like DMT. When you take an MAOI, it suppresses the action/production of MAO, thus drugs like DMT become orally active because they are no longer being deactivated by MAO. Consuming an MAOI makes your system vulnerable to all sorts of other molecules, as well as making psychedelics much more potent, which is where the potential risks lie. Do your research trippers!

[Leo Gura]

Sounds like you accessed channeling. Very interesting.

I didn't know that MAOI would affect vaporized DMT. That's kinda odd since it was already active. I guess MAOI just supercharges any substance.

Have you tried plugging DMT salt? That should last 45 mins or more and be smoother than vaping with no MAOI required.

Warning: combining 5-MeO-DMT with MAOI can be lethal. Never do that.

[Cortex]

Corpus is not as powerful as Cortex 

[kieranperez]

What do you think the relationship is between a “wise channel guide” you experienced here via channeling on psychedelics vs a projection of one’s own subconscious mind if they’re on a psychedelic like say LSD or on mushrooms?

If there is a difference or they still the same? 

Not sure if I’m using the right language to describe this but hopefully this is clear.

[Corpus]

MAOI affects both vaporized and oral DMT, both qualitatively and quantitively in the "same" way that it affects psilocybin in psilohuasca but when it comes to vaporized DMT one does not have the "leisure" of a 2-3 hour come-up and the directness of the delivery makes the venture number 1 in the list of extreme psychedelia that I have ever experienced. I have not tried plugging DMT salt but have heard good reports on this ROA.

 

I never thought of it in terms of being channelled but that's an interesting take on it.

 

I would also not call whatever "possessed" me as a guide- the term Drill Instructor would be more fitting. The attempt to maintain observer status was comprehensively wrenched away rendering me into a mere puppet who was going to be shown, whether I wanted to be shown or not. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Corpus said:

I would also not call whatever "possessed" me as a guide- the term Drill Instructor would be more fitting. The attempt to maintain observer status was comprehensively wrenched away rendering me into a mere puppet who was going to be shown, whether I wanted to be shown or not.

It's important to stay conscious that all "other" is really yourself. Even if the other is harsh.

Otherwise you're in duality.

So I would practice integrating that experience in a way where you're not separating yourself from whoever/whatever that thing was. Then maybe next time it won't feel so "other" or foreign.

If plugged DMT works similar to plugged 5-MeO, it will be an amazing ROA. My best guess is that plugging DMT is better than vaporizing it. Most people vaporize simply because they have not been shown a better way. And because most DMT is sold as freebase. I'll try out both methods and let you guys know my results.

[whoareyou]

@Leo Gura How many times have you tried to vape 5-MEO? And why are you so against vaping it? A lot of people would prefer to not stick something up their ass.

And like I said, Martin W Ball, the most experienced person with 5-MEO in the world, states that vaping it is the most effective method for non-dual liberation. Why should anyone take your word over his? 

[Corpus]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's important to stay conscious that all "other" is really yourself. Even if the other is harsh.

Otherwise you're in duality.

So I would practice integrating that experience in a way where you're not separating yourself from whoever/whatever that thing was. Then maybe next time it won't feel so "other" or foreign.

If plugged DMT works similar to plugged 5-MeO, it will be an amazing ROA. My best guess is that plugging DMT is better than vaporizing it. Most people vaporize simply because they have not been shown a better way. And because most DMT is sold as freebase. I'll try out both methods and let you guys know my results.

I hear you Leo, but experientially the transition to this putative "other" was so rapid- beyond what would be "comparatively" tame with the same dose of DMT, unenhanced - that it was to all intents and purposes, exogenous. And I do not anticipate a next time- once was utterly sufficient.

The amount of reports of breakthrough doses of effectively vaporized freebase DMT on the back of full MAO- inhibition are surprisingly few and I for one can appreciate why this might be.

I also think that there is something utterly unique about vaporized tryptamines in terms of the distance they can propel the user and should not be dismissed without experiencing them at least once. Trite phrases like "You had to be there", or "Do it, and then you'll know" have a counter-intuitive validity when applied to these activities. One simply has no idea of vaporhuascas capacity to deliver something monumentally epic without having vaporised DMT, and even then the elevation of the bar further is similar to the difference between say oral DMT and the vaporized trip in terms of profundity.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Corpus

[Forestluv]

11 hours ago, whoareyou said:

 

And like I said, Martin W Ball, the most experienced person with 5-MEO in the world, states that vaping it is the most effective method for non-dual liberation. Why should anyone take your word over his? 

I've vaped freebase with a standard vape at 428 degrees F. I'm not sure if it is the optimal temperature, yet it's as high as my vape goes. I have gotten good results (good for me anyway). Yet I have not reached breakthrough levels vaping. 

For me, vaping gives more management control - almost like a dial of intensity. It kicks in so fast. I can have mild intensity on 2 inhales or moderate intensity on 5 inhales. It's easy peasy and smooth. It takes out the anxiety aspect for me because nothing "takes over" or is possessive. Imo, it is by far the best roa for newbies getting their feet wet. Plus, you just need a couple mg of freebase.

Plugging is more like a wave. Once it's in there, the wave takes over. . . 

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, whoareyou said:

@Leo Gura How many times have you tried to vape 5-MEO? And why are you so against vaping it? A lot of people would prefer to not stick something up their ass.

I have not vaped it. Because after I snorted 30mg the trip was so intense it felt traumatizing and physically harmful. So I'm not eager to go any more intense than that.

The intensity I get from plugging is so powerful I don't need any more intensity. And if I did, I could always up the plugged dose.

Properly vaporizing a dose can also be challenging. Vaporizing HCl can be tricky as it burns. It also smells gross and I'm not sure if it's healthy for the lungs.

Quote

And like I said, Martin W Ball, the most experienced person with 5-MEO in the world, states that vaping it is the most effective method for non-dual liberation. Why should anyone take your word over his? 

You must understand that people have their own partial perspectives.

Martin has some good ideas, but they are partial. He has never plugged 5-MeO.

My 5-MeO experiences are different from what Martin describes in his books. People react to these substances in unique ways. I am not against vaping. I've just resonated with the plugging. Sometimes you find something that's so good it is perfect, requiring nothing more. That's where I'm at with plugged 5-MeO. To me, it is perfect. It is just absolutely perfect.

Try various methods and see which you like most. Don't turn this into an ideological battle.

[DnoReally]

@whoareyou Martin also says you need a guide and that there are no guides.

[whoareyou]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have not vaped it. Because after I snorted 30mg the trip was so intense it felt traumatizing and physically harmful. So I'm not eager to go any more intense than that.

The intensity I get from plugging is so powerful I don't need any more intensity. And if I did, I could always up the plugged dose.

Properly vaporizing a dose can also be challenging. Vaporizing HCl can be tricky as it burns. It also smells gross and I'm not sure if it's healthy for the lungs.

You must understand that people have their own partial perspectives.

Martin has some good ideas, but they are partial. He has never plugged 5-MeO.

My 5-MeO experiences are different from what Martin describes in his books. People react to these substances in unique ways. I am not against vaping. I've just resonated with the plugging. Sometimes you find something that's so good it is perfect, requiring nothing more. That's where I'm at with plugged 5-MeO. To me, it is perfect. It is just absolutely perfect.

Try various methods and see which you like most. Don't turn this into an ideological battle.

I have personally snorted it and found it to be extremely awful, and not effective. I have vaped it many times(with a shaman and by myself) and can tell you that to me vaping is perfect but you can also choose a lesser dose for vaping it.(Yes it is extremely intense, nothing can compare to it) I think your reason for not vaping it, is based on fear. Vaping a dosages that Martin W Ball recommends are extremely intense but safe though(you don't feel the physical harm that you feel with snorting). 

The biggest difference here, is that you still get insights while doing 5_MEO, and if you vaped it - there would be no more of that. And a part of your EGO doesn't want to surrender it, wants to continue to get more and more understandings. Martin W Ball states that there is actual no need for continuing trying to understand everything (egoic desire). This is till the phase that you are going through, but I do predict that one day you will surrender that part. ( have gone through it myself).

[Corpus]

I think there's some talking at cross purposes here; 5 Meo DMT freebase is required for effective vaporization, not salts such as HCl/oxalate which are more suited to insufflation, rectal and sublingual use. Vaporizing salts is inefficient when compared to freebase and will produce more sketchy fumes.

For rapid and mercifully briefer forays to the real depths vaporization is unrivalled in my opinion; to get that far with insufflation would be more arduous and protracted which comes with its own set of risks because of dosages required,and not forgetting the psychological aspects which are far far from insignificant.

Its a case of horses for courses; for gaining insight and doing work the rectal/intra-nasal routes are probably better but its hard to state conclusively that the method is perfect unless one can meaningfully compare it to the vaporized experience in order to have the full range of experiences to base ones conclusions upon.

One thing that our unifying interest here at Actualized should have taught us is that there are many levels, and the most efficacious routes to these depends on ones intentions which should govern the vehicle chosen to make the journey.