How can i know communism was blue?

[Nivsch]

Because i cant find any prove for it.

Karl marx doesnt seems like a blue person.

Maybe the phylosophy itself isnt blue, but that real implementation of this theory can only be done by blue regime?

Because it written that karl marx communism was a response for the capitalism, which is the opposite to what spiral dynamics shows us. Because in this case it seems like blue communism was a response for orange capitalism... cannot be happen in spiral dynamics.

I am arguing with a right-voter friend and trying to explain him that the extreme right (in the politics scale) were originally established communism, but he argues that the left is originally communist because when israel established in 1948, the far-leftists parties were inspired by the soviet communism which is true.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Nivsch

[SgtPepper]

You can find evidence on both sides. Nazism was a socialist party and Nazis are considered far-right & fascists. 

communism was blue because it was an ideology that punishes individuals who question it. It's about devotion to the party/government, no questions asked, and complete obedience. Just think of stage blue religious people.

[Wyatt]

Communism has a strong focus on the community/group and how they serve the whole. That means that communism can only be a stage that focuses on society rather than the individual. So communism can be purple, blue, green, or turquoise. I think we can quickly rule out purple and turquoise for obvious reasons. Green has a strong emphasis on people and their interactions, and whose values are centered around making the community happy, sharing and caring, and everyone is equal and shares as friends. This is not communism. Communism is structured so that people work not for eachother because they care so much for their fellow countrymen. They are directed and told to work by their government or "higher power". In healthy forms, by a caring and respected group of leaders. In unhealthy forms, by dictators who ruthlessly murder their civilians in the name of nationalism. Communism is a very Blue form of government

[Nivsch]

@Wyatt @SgtPepper thank you!

[now is forever]

15 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

You can find evidence on both sides. Nazism was a socialist party and Nazis are considered far-right & fascists. 

communism was blue because it was an ideology that punishes individuals who question it. It's about devotion to the party/government, no questions asked, and complete obedience. Just think of stage blue religious people.

well what someone calls themselves is not always the fact - sorry i got triggered by calling the nazis socialists, thats a farce. look at my name or my avatar! do i look like that? no. i‘m from germany so i know a little bit about political history here.

the nazis invented something that’s called national socialism what is nothing else than what italy did with fascism. but it has not anything to do with socialism it’s a sort of fascism, as the socialists communists where an international thing from the start and closer to french revolution, comune de paris, where it’s about equality and in that national socialism is a controversal name, it’s a sort of mimikri.

you have to understand what communism means to understand it never happened. nowhere except in our minds. and even communists fight against each other about what it can or can not be. what really happened was an attempt to replace one dictatorship with another while implementing socialism -  see how rough and hard times where, too. also try to see everything what happened then in regards to industrialization.

what happened in russia and the udssr was very dogmatic and in that sense it was blue or even red. in europe you can find communist and socialist parties in many countries, they also have different approaches they are not all blue!

politically it is interesting to some point what exactly of communist theory is the thought of communism as well as we have to think about what exactly of democracy is the thought of democracy and also understand what exactly of dictatorship is the thought of dictatorship.

Edited April 8, 2019 by now is forever

[Joseph Maynor]

Communism seems more like a Green thing to me than a Blue thing.  It's Green run amok.  It's like letting the students run the university.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[CreamCat]

On 4/9/2019 at 6:30 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

Communism seems more like a Green thing to me than a Blue thing.  It's Green run amok.  It's like letting the students run the university.

When Green feels threatened, it reverts to Blue. Also, people at the top of a communism regime were no Green.

[Joseph Maynor]

21 hours ago, CreamCat said:

When Green feels threatened, it reverts to Blue. Also, people at the top of a communism regime were no Green.

Communism is a Green thing.  Socialism is a Green thing.  Communism is characteristically Green because it's idealistic, sounds good in theory, but can never work in practice.  Blue is much more conservative.  Blue is not flying by the seat of their pants with theory like Green does.  You should actually read Marx and Mao if you wanna comment on Communism in an informed way.  Communism is Green idealism and Green liberalism rum amok.  It's a fantasy that's clearly stuck in the Mind that has never worked in practice.  That's because reality can never be cordoned off by the Mind in the way that the intellectual Green Mind always hopes to find.  It could be that Orange-Green tries to disown Communism and label it as Blue in an attempt to distance itself from Communism.  But it's pretty clear to me that Communism is a Green utopia -- it's a mental, idealistic utopia that the do-gooder Green wants to re-create society with with the false hope of improving injustices in society.  Read your Marx and you'll see this.  Ditto for Mao.  It's that 19th Century optimism about science affecting and improving everything run amok.  Remember Marx and Mao thought they were doing science.  You really gotta read the stuff.  I'm gonna link a book below that I've read that I recommend that you read.  Marx looked at himself as a Stage Green social engineer trying to improve injustices in society by putting government on a scientific foundation.  Very idealistic, liberal Green.  

https://www.amazon.com/Early-Writings-Penguin-Classics-2000-12-31/dp/B01K0Q0RVK/ref=sr_1_3?hvadid=78134099563406&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=marx+early+writings&qid=1554866612&s=gateway&sr=8-3

Edited April 10, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[CreamCat]

11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

That's because reality can never be cordoned off by the Mind in the way that the intellectual Green Mind always hopes to find.

They were pretty good at cordoning people in prisons and concentration camps. USA, the land of freedom, has more prisoners than the rest of the world. People often get the opposite of what the authorities claim. When a company advertises that its employees enjoy autonomy, the opposite is true. Collective ego flips the truths to recruit new members and survive.

Michael O Church, who seems to be between Orange and Green and Yellow, analyzed that communism and socialism were controlled by psychopaths and aristocrats who inherited social status from their parents over generations. I don't know if he is right, but that's an interesting theory. According to him, the same families are at the top of nazi germany and the current germany.

What if aristocrats usurped communism from inside?

Descendants of George Bush are likely to become the next presidents or high-ranking officers even if USA becomes socialist or communist. His father was a president, too.

Edited April 10, 2019 by CreamCat

[Nivsch]

@Joseph Maynor but what about stalin's communism? stalin cannot be green. He is so brutal he tortued and murdered people so the communism of stalin must be blue.

Green in far more sensitive and aware of the feeling of other people that maybe green can be social democratic and thinking about communism as an theoretic idea but never really establish it in reality.

[DnoReally]

@now is forever @SgtPepper

Three arrows has an excellent video on that topic

 

[Joseph Maynor]

22 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Joseph Maynor but what about stalin's communism? stalin cannot be green. He is so brutal he tortued and murdered people so the communism of stalin must be blue.

Green in far more sensitive and aware of the feeling of other people that maybe green can be social democratic and thinking about communism as an theoretic idea but never really establish it in reality.

Without researching and studying Stalin I wouldn’t be able to respond to this.  But great potential counter-example dude!  Maybe Blue can co-opt Green’s Utopian fantasies. [Maybe, I don’t know.  This is an interesting research question for someone to look into.]

But I think what we really have here though is Red co-opting Green’s fantasies to aggrandize Red.  Stalin is Red not Blue.  Red can manipulate Green for its own gain — including but not limited to co-opting and manipulating Green’s ideologies.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[now is forever]

@DnoReally it’s hilariously good. i’m really sad i have to watch something like this ??‍♀️

a cobra is called cobra because it will become a co bra.

a lamborghini is called lamborghini because you could have a lamb or a ghini.

[Hellspeed]

In practice is a strict blue, i was born in the last generation of communists. I can say even the generation that i grew up with most of them have fallen teeth and trauma.

[Scholar]

High level Memes can be adopted and culturalized across all developmental stages. A good example are the Indonesian mass killings, a capitalistic (Multiplistic-Individualistic) ideology adopted by an Absolutist-Egocentric society. Each stage can interpret a high level Meme through it's own framework, in fact that is the only way it can do it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66

Watch "They act of killing" if you want to get a deeper insight into the mechanisms taking place. 

 

All of this should be fairly obvious if we consider that all current major religions have kosmocentric meme's as a foundational structure of their ideologies. Memes spawned by the highest consciousness individuals have always been hijacked by lower consciousness structures. Our entire world is governed by ideologies that contain high level Memes but yet are on the lower levels of the spectrum, and even things like physics are no exception to that. 

Just look at the difference between the inventors of quantum physics, or even the inventor of the theory of relativity, and the physicists who currently live off of the fruits of these great insights into the nature of reality. Same mechanism, high level meme's adopted and misinterpreted by lower-level stages.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Scholar

[now is forever]

@Scholar

ever tried Vrikshasana?

Edited April 11, 2019 by now is forever

[Scholar]

By the way, what the communists did to the level green meme's of Karl Marx is what people in this community do to the level turquoise meme's that Leo is communicating in his videos. It is literally the same mechanism, no one can help but do it. The only advantage we have is that we know about this mechanism and thus have to tread with great care about any positive statements we make about the nature of reality that we have not yet experienced ourselves.

There is a reason why Zen Masters talk in riddles, and we do not yet know whether Leo's way of advocating the Truth will not have some sort of catastrophic results for certain individuals who follow this path. It is an experiment, and there is a possibility that there is a greater wisdom we have not yet articulated.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Scholar