Joker made another video on Leo

[DrewNows]

38 minutes ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

There's no perspective, he just criticizes people for saying things he doesn't believe to be true, is the classical skeptical that apply skepticism to everything but not for science, so he is partial

There’s always a perspective and if you can’t see it then you are stuck in your own. Notice the assumptions you are making to discredit any sort of value there may be 

[Forestluv]

57 minutes ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

There's no perspective, he just criticizes people for saying things he doesn't believe to be true, is the classical skeptical that apply skepticism to everything but not for science, so he is partial

I think there could be value in a certain context. For example a psychologist might find value and ask if this individual is engaged in a particular psychological dynamic that leads to misinterpretation and blocks him from a deeper understanding. What might that be? Perhaps learning about what is fueling his underlying thought story, how that story serves him and how it prevents expansion can allow us to develop methods to help people in a similar situation (that want help). For example, we might be able to form more efficient methods of deconstruction and disidentification. This could be helpful to others. From this perspective, his perspective and underlying psychological dynamics would have value. (This of course assumes he is contracted within a psychological self dynamic - which I think he is. Others may see him differently).

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, whoareyou said:

Ironically, this guy is totally right. And the OP+comments in this thread are a proof of it. Even though LEO states to not follow him blindly, a lot of you follow him blindly, without understanding what he is saying. And given the amount of videos he releases, there is too much information for many to grasp. When anyone criticizes LEO, you feel the right to defend him - a trap of the EGO. What you did, is you replaced your "old" identity, with "spiritual" identity - AKA EGO.

The more conscious you become, the desire to follow anyone or having a GURU disappears. And you are able to see the value in different perspectives.

Bingo.    It's just like Zzenn will tell you, "eat the grapes and spit out the seeds" with teachers and with teachings.  

Edited April 9, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[ajasatya]

9 hours ago, Scholar said:

This is what happens when a human being does not develop the capacity to recognize the limitations of formal operation cognition and does not transition into vision logic or post-formal. You have to understand that from his perspective, what he is saying and interpreting, is actually valid and correct. Nothing you ever will tell him is going to make sense to him, in fact it cannot make sense to him.

People in here have a tendency to dismiss this as pure ego, but that is very reductionistic and simply false. I can only recommend again and again that people in this community start to read some of the books on Leo's book list. The positions Leo is communicating are far more sophisticated than most people's understanding of the conclusions of these positions are. Leo's hour long videos are not even proper introductions into these topics, and people come away from them thinking they have understood them.

This cannot be reduced to epistemology or egoic behavior, there are very specific reasons for why these positions necessarily arise within a human mind, how and why they are overcome. Once you actually go through these stages yourself you will see, feel and understand why conventional communication between these cognitive operators are relatively futile. It is in a very real way as if you tried to make an infant understand what object permanence is. It is not merely an understanding that can be communicated, it is a perception that is connected to cognition. It is how the mind generates it's own subjective reality. Thus it is not even knowledge or a merely a perception, it is actually a difference in the subjective realities between two subjects.

These perceptions and cognitive operators structure your reality, and you expect these people to take in information that was generated by cognitive operators and perception that are simply non-existence in their mind structures and consciousness. You cannot understand object permanence if you have no experience of object permanence.

i couldn't have said it better than you did. thank you.

this is so complicated to explain that i don't even try.

[Forestluv]

@Scholar Thanks for your take of the video. I find it an insightful view of a psychological dynamic that I had not realized before.

[Joseph Maynor]

 

[zambize]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

I really like what he says at 12:00 about relationships, he's got some good points spread out

[Dumb Enlightened]

3 hours ago, whoareyou said:

Ironically, this guy is totally right. And the OP+comments in this thread are a proof of it. Even though LEO states to not follow him blindly, a lot of you follow him blindly, without understanding what he is saying. And given the amount of videos he releases, there is too much information for many to grasp. When anyone criticizes LEO, you feel the right to defend him - a trap of the EGO. What you did, is you replaced your "old" identity, with "spiritual" identity - AKA EGO.

The more conscious you become, the desire to follow anyone or having a GURU disappears. And you are able to see the value in different perspectives.

No buddy, this guy doesn't criticizes only leo, he criticize a lot of people, I unfortunately came across him even before I met actualized.org, and I also unfortunately bought his books LoL, my opinion about him comes way before I met leo

Once I asked him in a comment from his videos,  how does he know that he isn't in a dream, what proofs does he have ? His answer ' you are deluded'

So that's the kind of argument that this dude has, he's not even open to a dialogue, his mind has him completely under control

 

 

[Dumb Enlightened]

2 hours ago, DrewNows said:

There’s always a perspective and if you can’t see it then you are stuck in your own. Notice the assumptions you are making to discredit any sort of value there may be 

Yeah everyone has a perspective, I meant , there's no value perspective from his video, his perspective (the materialistic skeptic) who believes in science and evolution, this is nothing new, and the majority of the population has this perspective, the problem of this guys is that he criticizes lots of people, like he is right, he has no respect for other's opinions, and the best part ( he thinks he's right, he doesn't have any doubt)

I read both of his book, my review is (complete garbage) the worst books Ive read in a while,

But if you  like his work, go for it,

 

[Joseph Maynor]

17 minutes ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

Yeah everyone has a perspective, I meant , there's no value perspective from his video, his perspective (the materialistic skeptic) who believes in science and evolution, this is nothing new, and the majority of the population has this perspective, the problem of this guys is that he criticizes lots of people, like he is right, he has no respect for other's opinions, and the best part ( he thinks he's right, he doesn't have any doubt)

I read both of his book, my review is (complete garbage) the worst books Ive read in a while,

But if you  like his work, go for it,

There is no nuance in your assessment.  That's always a red flag for me.  Reality is nuanced, so when I see a black and white thinking Mind, my gaydar antennae goes up.  Although in this case it's not measuring gayness, but it's the same kind of intuitive recognition.  It's one of those, "Ah!" recognition moments. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[DrewNows]

@Dumb EnlightenedI know much less about the dude than you but sometimes find it healthy (and sometimes beneficial) to hear opposing views relating to those I’m resonating with especially if I get triggered ?

what you say sounds accurate though, it seems his agenda isn’t very expansive and probably stems from fear.  

Thanks for sharing 

 

 

[Dumb Enlightened]

19 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

There is no nuance in your assessment.  That's always a red flag for me.  Reality is nuanced, so when I see a black and white thinking Mind, my gaydar antennae goes up.  Although in this case it's not measuring gayness, but it's the same kind of intuitive recognition.  It's one of those, "Ah!" recognition moments. 

I laugh about the gaydar thing hahaha really cool,

I'm really open to the possibility that I'm full of shit, and in the end science may be right, the brain is the source of awareness, the universe began at the Big bang, who knows,... But from my direct experience I realized other things, but I don't make videos for YouTube criticizing those who don't agree with me, I think this dude could approach things with a little more respect to others, he's always mocking people, and of course he is influencing others so he has even more responsibility

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Dumb Enlightened

[purerogue]

4 hours ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

I laugh about the gaydar thing hahaha really cool,

I'm really open to the possibility that I'm full of shit, and in the end science may be right, the brain is the source of awareness, the universe began at the Big bang, who knows,... But from my direct experience I realized other things, but I don't make videos for YouTube criticizing those who don't agree with me, I think this dude could approach things with a little more respect to others, he's always mocking people, and of course he is influencing others so he has even more responsibility

 

Exactly, I understand what they mean by looking from his  perspective and he clearly does have valid points, you can find them anywhere, that is the thing with perspective, but he is not teaching anything about  perspective , he is just  giving his perspective,which is stupid reason to tell that he is teaching anything with his videos, you can learn from any videos then.

Just because you understand what is perspective and want to understand his does not make him teacher, if you think that he is trying to teach anyone with this, then I can tell you that he can just as easily delude people on picking on his perspective, making them resent people, or run other way on smallest flaw, because as I said, he does not teach what is perspective, how it operates, or what is his goal with any of this, he just talks what he does not agree with.  

Also he has bad habit to simply criticize without giving any reason to even make it observable perspective, which is even worse. 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by purerogue

[Vitamine Water]

21 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

There is no nuance in your assessment.  That's always a red flag for me.  Reality is nuanced, so when I see a black and white thinking Mind, my gaydar antennae goes up.  Although in this case it's not measuring gayness, but it's the same kind of intuitive recognition.  It's one of those, "Ah!" recognition moments. 

My humor gaydar went up, thanks Joseph. 

[Good-boy]

Found a funny one.

 

 

[OrpheusNovum]

 

[SOUL]

The dude just deleted a ton of videos and uploaded a video of text about changing his content in the future to not be antagonistic towards 'personalities'. It seems that he was getting some copyright dings from someone or few he's been criticizing and it likely would have resulted in his channel being taken down if he didn't delete that content that included it.

This may have been the motivation behind his reassessment of his content and the direction of his channel but it's great that he recognizes the distraction of that activity even if it came externally in awakening him to it. I didn't watch very many of his videos because his repetitive criticisms were cringy to me even if accurate sometimes.

It will be interesting to see what direction he goes without his 'debunker' identity on the channel but at least the targets of his criticisms will have one less detractor making 'negative' content about them. I'm doing to watch some of his own spiritual path descriptions since it's pretty much all he has left on his channel and it's easy to know which are those videos.

Edited April 11, 2019 by SOUL