Some people think they are far more developed than they actually are.

[CreamCat]

After watching Leo's videos, I dropped "all" popular ideologies and cured most anxiety attacks although I am still lazy and I don't do meditation everyday.

I'm no longer anxious about not reaching my full potential.

Some people put out videos about self development. Yet, I find that they are even more emotionally messed up than I am.

It's "easy" for me to make them angry or disturb them although they claim that they progressed a lot. They do not realize that they are full of bullshit theories. They confuse ideologies and beliefs and selfishness of (collective) ego with truths. I feel pity.

I think that they are suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect which is a cognitive bias by which people of low ability have illusory superiority and experts assume everyone else knows what the experts already know.

Edited April 8, 2019 by CreamCat

[Shadowraix]

Whats the purpose of this thread?

All you've done is make a comparison on how people compare their perceptions of how developed they are with other perceptions of how developed they are.

[Truth Addict]

@CreamCat

I see your point my friend. But since I can never be sure anyone is sincere like I can be with myself, I'd rather focus on myself and develop more authenticity.

[Wyatt]

I think you're spending unneeded energy criticizing other people's development. If you are right, they will find that out for themselves with more life experience how clueless they really are. If you're not, thank god we have people who are highly developed on this planet

[CreamCat]

9 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

If you are right, they will find that out for themselves with more life experience how clueless they really are.

I could see that they agonize themselves with their bullshit theories and their bullshit ideologies. I wanted to help them, but they were deeply entrenched in bullshit theories. They even used Leo's videos to fuel their bullshit ideologies although Leo Gura wanted people to drop ideologies. It seems that either disaster or death will wake them up. I can't help everyone.

Condolences for them because they are going to suffer for a very long time.

[Gabriel Antonio]

Idolizing people is definitely not a good thing. People who are in a state of emotional fragility might project exarcebated qualities onto, especially, spiritual teachers.

Check Leo's episode on projection. It can go either in the negative and positive aspects. 

 

Quote

If you can see your neighbors travel to fantastic places without a twinge of jealousy. If you can love everyone around you unconditionally, and if you can always find contentment just where you are, then you’re probably... a dog.

 

By the way, don't forget to add Leo to your list  

[Gabriel Antonio]

On 06/04/2019 at 0:21 PM, Shadowraix said:

Whats the purpose of this thread?

All you've done is make a comparison on how people compare their perceptions of how developed they are with other perceptions of how developed they are.

What's the purpose of your reply? 

[7thLetter]

Sure it bothers me sometimes too when this girl talks about being spiritual when she doesn't even meditate, but I think a lot of people go through this mistake. Probably almost everyone has and will experience this, it's a common newbie mistake. Even I've gone through it, maybe I'm still going through it to some small degree, but eventually you grow out of it after some time and realize you're further back than you expected.

And it doesn't just happen in personal development, I think it happens in a lot of other areas of life like entrepreneurship. Newbie entrepreneurs watch Gary Vee, think they're the shit and think they have a sustainable business but all they do is flip thrift store clothing on Instagram and realize entrepreneurship is harder than they thought.

It's a common newbie mistake, fuck it. Might as well criticize elementary school kids too for not understanding university level teachings

[ajasatya]

@CreamCat don't get emotionally involved. you don't seem to be doing much better than them...

[Joseph Maynor]

I agree with this.  Bingo friend.  I see many Stage Blue, Orange, Green folks thinking they are much higher up on the Spiral than they really are.  They're deluding themselves.  You're not at Yellow unless and until you can learn to think paradoxically and know what that really means and practice that in your actual conceptual understanding practice and interpersonal conduct.  You get my award for the best insight of the year so far.  If you're still stuck in linear, black and white thinking, you're not at Yellow -- you're probably some combination of Blue, Orange, and Green thinking you're much higher than that.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Key Elements]

This topic reminds me of a saying...

But, if you correct a wise man (or woman) in the wrong way, most likely, he'll not say much or anything at all. He'll just go back to doing his work, whatever that is.

It will look like this:

[CreamCat]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You're probably some combination of Blue, Orange, and Green thinking you're much higher than that.

I am aware that I haven't yet integrated tier 1 stages of Spiral Dynamics properly. I can see that I don't think much about systems. I don't think much about progress. I don't think much about discipline and rules. I don't think much about helping others. Recently, I was obsessed with solving my own petty personal problems such as which speakers to buy. Pettiness pervaded my life. This thread is pretty petty, too.

I'm not much better than people stuck in bullshit ideologies. However, I am developed enough to recognize how poorly developed I am. I am also not nearly as trapped in bullshit ideologies. I would consider that a good starting point. It can take years just to realize how poorly one is developed and to escape cults and ideologies that waste countless hours.

From now on, I will work on dropping pettiness and focus more on personal growth rather than my petty personal problems.

Edited April 8, 2019 by CreamCat

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, Gabriel Antonio said:

What's the purpose of your reply? 

To figure out the purpose of the thread lol

Is OP looking for feedback on thoughts, just sharing something they realized or what? What's the intended goal of discussion? And how is it helpful? 

Making a projection of how other people see themselves doesn't seem helpful to me. So I'm inquiring. 

[purerogue]

It will help if you are open enough to see how much of what you think is merely beliefs you picked up and how much of it is something you know. 

Anyway , it is normal process , none is prone to it, it is helpful to remind everyone about once in a while, but this threat could have been delivered better, you will make allot of people block your message because you triggered them. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by purerogue

[Skanzi]

On 6-4-2019 at 5:24 PM, Truth Addict said:

@CreamCat

I see your point my friend. But since I can never be sure anyone is sincere like I can be with myself, I'd rather focus on myself and develop more authenticity.

I agree with that one. So many times I see posts come around here on actualized.org, often certain transcendent, absolute or non-dual statements, and I then often wonder how much of what they're saying they have actually truly realized and integrated. If they all have, then there would be a surprising amount (semi-)enlightened gurus here on actualized.org. It makes me recall a term that Adyashanti uses: "being stuck in the absolute".

I am noting this particular type of person now, stated above, because this is the one I am most reminded of.

I like somebody who is able to change perspectives in the flick of a dime. Osho is a good example. What I like about his work is that he always seems to get to the core of the issue of what the question(er) needs at that particulate moment, and doesn't get caught up in some sort of ultimate, disassociative reality. Very versatile, very adaptable. And always very sober and straight to the point.

But then again: Perhaps many of the people writing here have actually realized great transcendental realities. And maybe what they are saying does come from their core, and not merely from their minds. It's hard to judge, sometimes. In fact: It is better not to judge and simply seek out that which resonates with you. If what a person says or does doesn't resonate with you — right or wrong, true or untrue, deep or shallow— then simply don't bother about it.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Skanzi

[Cosmo]

It's slightly funny to hear you guys talking about not subscribing to ideologies while simultaneously discussing which colour you are on the spiral. Self development shouldn't require you to look down on other people. If you get off on being spiritually superior to others than you haven't learned a thing.

[Joseph Maynor]

27 minutes ago, Cosmo said:

It's slightly funny to hear you guys talking about not subscribing to ideologies while simultaneously discussing which colour you are on the spiral. Self development shouldn't require you to look down on other people. If you get off on being spiritually superior to others than you haven't learned a thing.

I don't think Spiral Dynamics is necessarily tied to the Ego-Mind's urge to feel superior to other Ego-Minds.  You can have the motive to grow be an independent and distinct motive from the motive to feel superior to other Egos.  One's desire to grow can come from within, not necessary from a desire to artificially fill a kind of interpersonal deficiency need.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Cosmo]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't think Spiral Dynamics is necessarily tied to the Ego-Mind's urge to feel superior to other Ego-Minds.  You can have the motive to grow be an independent and distinct motive from the motive to feel superior to other Egos.  One's desire to grow can come from within, not necessary from a desire to fill a kind of interpersonal deficiency need.

I agree! I think spiral dynamics are a helpful tool, but I would be wary of actively and earnestly identifying myself or others through it. Once you label yourself in that way (even if it's supposed to be helpful) you're narrowing yourself. 

There is a sea of self help out there. Different things will work for different people, and the same advice will illicit different reactions.

[tsuki]

Ah, the greatest joy of being better by not wanting to be better.
Why on Earth would you spoil it by saying it out loud though?

[Key Elements]

Another thing that this topic reminds me of is, I think you can't really give a person a profound advice like that, unless you know him/her very personally, unless you're willing to listen with patience, and you're very radically open-minded. This has to happen on both sides. And, you cannot just trust anyone in revealing yourself just like that.