identification- I

[Aakash]

I am slowly beginning to realise how much identification plays a part in the person we become 

i constantly have so many beliefs that are untrue and all these beliefs all occur because i didn't know my true self 

like for example neurosis of a human being 

neurosis occurs because i believe myself to be human being with a body and mind that enjoys to do the addicted activity

but in truth, if you take the true self through human, the human being doesn't need anything because it sees the through the belief that nothing is actually happening 

OR 

identification to ALL thoughts, 

i constantly identify and think i am a human being thinking but there is no individual I who is thinking, the process is happening on its own which 

OR 

i have fears, anxieties, shadow work, all because i belief myself to be human, but in truth there is only love 

what ones can you think of? 

 

[Leo Gura]

It cannot be otherwise. Survival requires identification. The function of identification is to single out what must be survived. If you didn't have an identification you would not be able to tell yourself apart from a chair, and you would not know which of the two is more important to defend and protect.

Your entire mind is what you identify with, and what you try to survive. Into this are tied all of your thoughts, beliefs, opinions, attitudes, behaviors, emotions, reactions, knowledge, etc. That entire tangled mess is the self/ego-mind. Its job is to survive at all costs. Which is why changing any part of yourself is so hard. All change is perceived as death and resisted with a vengeance.

[Arhattobe]

Are your bodies reflexes due to the conscious belief that you are a human? It is a gross oversimplification to say all woes are due to identification with thoughts. Most your traumas, issues, and ignorance are not due to any conscious doing. The deep reeceses of your subconscious can not be untangled by mere non duality or disidentification. 

[Aakash]

@leo i see so is it an overstatement to state that all beliefs boil down to a sense of identification, i'm majorly deconstructing my beliefs system now because once again everything i knew to be true before is false AGAIN, there's so much about enlightenment that i didn't take into account because i was fantasising about it from the perspective of a identified human being, now i've had the chance to compare between the absolute human being, lets call it for reference sake. its only shown me how much more there is to deconstruct, deeper - especially my view on enlightenment. 

however, if it all comes down to identification that can save me a lot of time, because i can just extricate myself from the equation. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Aakash

[Jkris]

@Arhattobe so what's the solution? 

[Aakash]

@Arhattobe identification of thought is only one component, identification is more broad than that, it is really identifications to beliefs that i'm trying to expo-say.  i'm literally talking about everything you believe in is a lie, until you get to absolute realms because whatever you've thought of from the beginning is a lie because you thought of it from human identification. 

[Aakash]

@Jkris the solutions, is to understand your psychology and the beliefs you carry, then identification will slowly detach form them. the only way to get over traumas is to realise whatever you thought about the situation was wrong. 

i.e "my life will never be good again after this", 

5 years later - life gets better from the individual perspective

10 years later - "ohh my life is good again" 

ofcourse its not as simple as i make it sound, but the mechanisms behind it are still true 

the problems with traumas is you have beliefs, on beliefs stacked upon each other and many of those beliefs carry with them an ethical consideration which makes it clear black and white because most people have moral compassing. 

[Jkris]

@Aakash ???

[Leo Gura]

Identification and survival is an extremely complex and sophisticated mechanism. It's got may layers to it, most of which are of course subconscious.

It's a complex tangled mess that takes not just years, but DECADES, to fully understand and deconstruct. It must be this way because your entire life hinges upon it. If it was not this complex and sophisticated you'd be dead a long time ago.

Don't get discouraged. Keep slowly untangling that mess.

Virtually EVERYTHING your mind and body does, from morning to night is survival. Almost not a single thought crosses your mind which is not related to your survival. You need to take this point very seriously. Really notice it. You must notice how survival dominates your entire life on a second by second basis. And all of that is tied in directly with ego and identification. They are so closely tied that you don't know the difference between yourself and your survival. Every emotional disturbance you experience is survival-in-action. EMOTIONS ARE SURVIVAL! THOUGHTS ARE SURVIVAL!

The significance of this cannot be overstated.

The solution to it is, you observe it. Like an owl watches a mouse. The more you observe, the freer you become of it, the less it controls you like a puppet.

[Arhattobe]

@Jkris A healthy approach to the path.

Non duality gets rid of gross identification. Identification with the personality and beliefs.

A number of fetters revolving around instinctual and subconscious fear and control mechanisms. Self awareness of this fact, and not denying it will make the embodiment process post awakening a lot smoother.

There is a very long road from a stream entry person to an arhat who has rid himself of all defilements and sees reality without any distortions. At all. 

@Aakash ? cool

[Paul92]

@Aakash  You absolutely don't choose your own thoughts. Think of something random now. Anything. Where did it come from? You can't think a thought before you thought it. So we have no free will. You're just hard wired to survive. You're like a machine. There is no you running things in your head.

[Aakash]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The solution to it is, you observe it. Like an owl watches a mouse. The more you observe, the freer you become of it, the less it controls you like a puppet.

@Leo Gura would it be safe to say that watching it like an owl and then doing the opposite thing automatically, no matter how counter-intuitive after some consideration into what kind of survival mechanism it is. 

do you personally have a categorisation of survival mechanisms 

or is this what you intended when you did your self-delusions 3 part series 

[Leo Gura]

@Aakash I'm not clear what you're asking. Just doing opposite things automatically sounds mechanical and not conscious. The solution is to do things more consciously.

Yes, challenging your automatic survival reactions is good. It is harder than merely observing. It's the next step after lots of observing.

There is no categorization per se. 99% of all the stuff you do every day are your survival mechanisms. Rather than trying to categorize them, observe them. Categorizing stuff tends to itself be a survival mechanism. Why are you categorizing stuff? To help you do what?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Aakash

2 hours ago, Aakash said:

@Leo Gura would it be safe to say that watching it like an owl and then doing the opposite thing automatically, no matter how counter-intuitive after some consideration into what kind of survival mechanism it is. 

do you personally have a categorisation of survival mechanisms 

or is this what you intended when you did your self-delusions 3 part series 

No. Have you read the book "The Dice Man"? In that story a guy chooses to leave all of his decisions to the roll of a dice. He does that with the purpose of being enlightened (even though he doesn't consciously know this) but fails in the end because it never occurs to him to stop the "i-thought" from dominating existence. He just ends up as a very random person. The most important thing in this work is to become conscious of the "I-thought" and how it is focal point through which your life is currently being experienced. Constant awareness of this "I" and repeated revelation that it is not founded on any concrete trurths is what causes the notion to be come less and less manifested. That is the goal. To never, ever be limited in any way, shape, or form ever again. 

I recently read The Book of Not Knowing by Peter Ralston. I think that book nicely demonstrates the matter. It's also very long, detailed, and at times arduous which should be suitable for a strong mind such as yours

Ultimately surrender implies absence of someone who surrenders. 

[Aakash]

@Leo Gura so one i have observed so far in the past 2 hours is: 

i tend to look sexual at the female sex within my age category on the train, more specifically hindu/ indian females,  my current understanding of this is because its reactionary to the belief that a neccessary part of survival as mating and marriage, but again this only a belief on a human level 

when you identify with true nature, this belief as well as all human identified beliefs go, when you bring this back through your human form, its not an absolute so it won't carry over in your desires 

another one was: 

using humour to make it seem okay that i never done the group work properly for my group presentation assignment today: 

i just done it an hour ago, but i didn't want the group to let them know i let them down and that i basically focused really on my consciousness work and only done my bit for 30 minutes last night when i had 3 months to do it. 

the survival mechanism was deceit in a subtle way because i never really lied i guess, i just said i did the work, so this is belief of fear, and social acceptance and not being humiliated/ the reason why the group might have done bad 

so i would categories marriage as a survival need in social norms

but these all stem from a single belief and that is that i am human and limiting your identity there

so how would you deal with these after observing them, youd find the belief and you would eliminate it with the absolute 

and according to foxfox this happens automatically as soon as your enlightened but i don't understand how that occurs really and plus i still think that neurosis and false beliefs can still exist within enlightened people, and the only way to stop it is to go all the way to the end and embody truth itself because youll stop identifying with humans, i would say like people like to point out that alan watts was still an alcoholic even though he knew the truth. so there's a clear process. 

you said" Into this are tied all of your thoughts, beliefs, opinions, attitudes, behaviors, emotions, reactions, knowledge" 

but to me thoughts are beliefs, opinions are beliefs, attitudes are beliefs, behaviours are beliefs , emotions are beliefs , reactions are beliefs, knowledge is beliefs 

everything is belief except the absolute, i don't take away the importance of them for survive purposes 

but the beliefs ALL stem from the belief of identification of "i"  human. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Aakash

[Aakash]

@FoxFoxFox you can stop the i thought and stop identifying with everything but how can you be so sure the human body you exhibit will be purified aswell ? getting rid of the i-thought to me, is i am the one that is aware of what is going on and the storyline of the person is left by itself to infinite intelligence.

so it is the "I" WHICH is a belief that is the one identifying and needing to create a finite ground, but this is not truth.

isn't that basically what the fettas in buddism are they are purifying you because your nature is automatically unconsciously being shift to i-true self and the facets of god that is love, intelligence, peace , etc

Edited April 4, 2019 by Aakash

[Highest]

"I have fears, anxieties, shadow work, all because i belief myself to be human, but in truth there is only love   what ones can you think of?"

Human is a concept. Look at your direct experience. Self-inqure. All beliefs of the mind are wrong. You are not it. You are the witness of them.

[Aakash]

@Highest fear of the unknown, sometimes social anxiety because i think differently to the people around me, addictions, fear of embarrrassment, fear of failure

human is a concept which is why i'm saying its a belief all of it, the whole of reality as humans know it is a belief , 

but thats what i mean

so all the truths belonging to the human consciousness are false, 

[Highest]

1 minute ago, Aakash said:

@Highest fear of the unknown, sometimes social anxiety because i think differently to the people around me, addictions, fear of embarrrassment, fear of failure

human is a concept which is why i'm saying its a belief all of it, the whole of reality as humans know it is a belief , 

but thats what i mean

so all the truths belonging to the human consciousness are false, 

Consciousness itself has no beliefs. It is the ego-mind. All your anxiety and other stuff comes from the belief and sense that you are seperate and this causes fear. I cannot tell you this more enough, you must do the work yourself. You know the information and what to do, start doing it.

[Highest]

"human is a concept which is why i'm saying its a belief all of it, the whole of reality as humans know it is a belief"

Yes, true. Only the true Self or I is the Truth. 95% doesn't know what reality is because they don't know themselves.