what are the problems that could be addressed with actualised.org

[Aakash]

background

i think once in a while its good to have a reality check and see if there's anyway we can make things better as a community. ever since leo's last video, the number of dividing views and different opinions has dramatically increased. i think the biggest one that people would like to address is people's beliefs in leo's awakenings and advitta trappings. so to have a systemised structure to viewcase everyones opinions, if they would like to participate in this thread. could you write the following : 

a) the problem in a simple statement

followed by 

b) why you think its a problem 

c) solutions to the problems 

[Aakash]

the free flowing ideas of thoughts 

i think that people are too simple with their arguments and debates, they don't back their claims up with examples and metaphors for the other people to understand. they simply say it with the expectation that the other receipients will automatically change their minds, i understand the topics are nuanced but a lot of the debates i've seen are people trying to prove the other person wrong. which is healthy, its just simply stated and not backed up with examples 

give examples and metaphors for your debates

 

[Joseph Maynor]

I don't want to speak for Leo.  All I will say is I think this Forum is best when we have a free flow of ideas, even if those ideas are hostile or critical to our own ideas.  I think we need to be less defensive and less protective and less controlling and allow this Forum to be an open place where a wide variety of contrasting ideas are considered and debated.  Lately, I have had some concerns which I have expressed already and don't want to re-iterate here.  The bottom line is I think the Forum is best when it's as free and open as possible.  And that means that we get to hear ideas and perspectives that challenge our own.  That means that we allow in more than we omit.  It's that crucible of many ideas where the magic is allowed to brew and happen.  

(A) I would like some clarification from Leo as to what constitutes "Nonduality wars".  We need to be able to discuss ideas and hash out ideas on here.  This issue needs to be clarified.  I would like Leo to look at this issue and give us some clearer guidance and leadership here.  If the moderators are interpreting "Nonduality wars" in a way that deviates from the intention that Leo has for the Forum, and it might also cause people to be punished in way that Leo doesn't intend for the Forum.  Or maybe the vagueness of the rule sets up a space of capriciousness where some people can be selectively punished while others are not.  This is why we need clarification as to what "Nonduality wars" includes and does not include straight from Leo, straight from the top.  

(B) I also think we need clarification of what "trolling" means.  I've received warning points by a moderator for trolling whereas I never thought of myself as a troll on here, at least that was never my intention.  Please clarify what trolling means and includes Leo.  That's another one that's rife for abuse and capricious application if it's not carefully defined.  I'm sure all of us can be accused of trolling on occasion, so we need to tighten up when that rule has in fact been violated and when it has not.

(C) I also think there needs to be an appeal system in place to Leo for review any decision to award warning points or to issue suspensions by any moderator -- that are appealed to Leo by a member of the Forum.  Moderation can be abused and capriciously applied without proper oversight.  This is the same reason courts are nested within an appeal framework.  This is the same reason why there are checks and balances in government.  Unchecked power can be a problem and lead to injustices within the system.  And that just taints the whole system, like a bad workplace environment for those of you who know what I'm talking about.  We're all human beings, subject to human limitations.  That's why we need checks and balances for human beings.  I've seen some bias, and I'll leave it at that.  Leo knows.  I'm pretty sure Leo understands everything I've said here regarding improving the Forum.  Now it's on him to decide.  I've done my job as I see it by raising some issues that I see are relevant to improving the Forum for the Future.  But this is his baby and he's the leader ultimately.  I think Leo and I have always had a respectful sharing of ideas, and that's all this is.

(D) I see an issue where critical thinking may not be encouraged enough on the Forum .  I think part of our work is taking a critical review of your teachings too Leo.  And that includes critically examining all teachings, including Leo's teachings. A person can do two things at once: (1) critically examine yourself and (2) you critically examine all teachings too.  I don't understand why this is even being resisted on the Forum.  This is basic critical thinking.  I'm wondering if critical thinking is being valued enough on here now.  

Video on point to watch for (D):

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[purerogue]

Because I think it is waste of energy to prove others wrong , it is Leo responsibility to guide, unfortunately it seems he does not think that he is making people go in circles and pick up silly ideas, it is not so much about disagreeing with him , but how he formulates his insights that I find problem in, he is dealing with complex minds after all, shame we cant agree on that one, I guess I will have to read these silly threads for a while. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by purerogue

[Aakash]

11 minutes ago, purerogue said:

but how he formulates his insights that I find problem in

interesting... how do you mean 

i too think this is the problem that causes people to pick up beliefs, i've done four years of solo contemplation before i knew actualised.org even existed so when i think of leo's lessons, i've already gone and thought through most of the causation chains, with one or two parts missing that leo's gives me to finish it off. that's how i verify it against my own experience and understanding of reality. for some people they are starting their casuation chain fresh or with little examples to understand the dynamic lesson being taught. 

for example if a leads to be leads to c which means birds are blue 

if i get told birds are blue straight without understanding how a causes b causes c then i won't understand why birds are blue

Edited April 4, 2019 by Aakash

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, Aakash said:

interesting... how do you mean 

i too think this is the problem that causes people to pick up beliefs, i've done four years of solo contemplation before i knew actualised.org even existed so when i think of leo's lessons, i've already gone and thought through most of the causation chains, with one or two parts missing that leo's gives me to finish it off. that's how i verify it against my own experience and understanding of reality. for some people they are starting their casuation chain fresh or with little examples to understand the dynamic lesson being taught. 

for example if a leads to be leads to c which means birds are blue 

if i get told birds are blue straight without understanding how a causes b causes c then i won't understand why birds are blue

I mean about the same as you , but it goes even further where you can start to make chain of other ideas out of one idea because that is what mind likes to do. 

[Aakash]

 

chain 1: a-b-c-d 

                                  }        hybrid chain 1 and chain 2                 

chain 2: a-b-c-d 

this is the interconnectedness of reality, you can't not have chain ideas like this 

but the problem is leo isn't clear about how his video's the chains in them are all interlinked and this is where people are left believing instead of understanding that because in chain 2 b causes c that leads to c causing d to also be true in chain 1 and therefore you get the hybrid chain which is "truth" or reality as we can understand it as human consciousness

this also applies to logic in general when debating between two people 

if their chains are linked differently, then the words used to explain how c and d link for chain 1 in a particular topic can be completely different meaning to the chain 1 that links c and d together in another participants and this is why i say that examples will help get a more equal ground. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Aakash

[Joseph Maynor]

I think we should have term-limits for Forum moderators.  2 years, that's it.  Then you gotta go back to being a regular member again for 2 years before you can become a moderator again for a term of another 2 years, and so on.  Otherwise it just gets kinda corrupt.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[MM1988]

The forum software kind of sucks. It is good for what it is but I would prefer something more like Reddit.

The mega threads are full of tons of wisdom and reference material but who wants to look through 100s of pages?