Why seek enlightenment?

[AlphaAbundance]

What's the point, understanding reality doesnt seem to elicit happiness (like having a sated curiousity? really?) Like are you literally in constant euphoria when awakened? There is no suffering, no anxiety, no depression, etc but what about the positives (it is not like its some stimulating video game or sex that's ego , so what is there? Fulfillment? That seems to be weak) Literally it seems like the only reason anything is done is for greater joy (not only hedonism but other joys or overall greater "experiences") so how does enlightenment bring this and does understanding and being God elicit this?

[Arhattobe]

Lot of assumptions. Unquestioned and stated as fact.

[AlphaAbundance]

@Arhattobe Oh true what assumptions did you see I had?

[Nahm]

Suffering. How is this still a mystery?

[Arhattobe]

@AlphaAbundance most of what you said . Mostly about enlightenment 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Arhattobe

[AlphaAbundance]

@Arhattobe What about what I said do you know to be wrong? Please help a brother out

[AlphaAbundance]

@Nahm Sorry man I'm intellectually challenged --- What's so great about no suffering? What I am saying is: on a scale say there is suffering at 10-20 and joy at 3 (with whatever pleasures of ego attachments)? So enlightement bring suffering to 0 (that's great and all) but what joy does it bring and can you describe it?

[Nahm]

@AlphaAbundance

Me too, severely. 

What’s great about not suffering is not suffering. 

If your scale is based on 0 - 20 and suffering is 10 - 20 range, and joy is 3 - that is not actually joy. That is “joy” experienced through a thought story. Like how a tiny bit of light might be shining through a window that is 99% draped. Something terrible is observed, “joy” instantly goes from 3 to 0.

JOY is no drape at all. Every cell is elated! No line between where a body ends and bliss begins, the body is bliss! THAT is JOY. Something terrible is observed.....JOY sky rockets!! There is no drape, all is illuminated! No more RE-ACTing, (repeating).  Over and over, never ending - RE- JOY-cing. 

Around here, “seeking” has a microcosm definition based on the existence of and defeating of, an “ego”. So consider a meaning for “seeking” as more broad than this forum, spirituality, etc. More broad than “beating an ego to death”. If only for this post / explanation, let’s define suffering as experiencing a thought story, and seeking as trying to experience reality as it is (Actuality). Using a similar scale analogy....

 

Person A:     Suffering is 5.     Seeking is 5.   Occasional joy. 

Person B:     Suffering is 1.     Seeking is 1.   Occasional joy.

Person C:     Suffering is 10.    Seeking is 10.    No joy. 

BUT...Though Person C is suffering at 10, they are also seeking at 10. Person C ain’t messing around here. Suffering to Person C is not a game, they do not take it lightly, they don’t have time for wasting.  Person C isn’t “meditating once and a while”. Person C isn’t “considering trying psychedelics”.  Person C WILL END THE SUFFERING, NO THING WILL STOP THEM.  So eventually, Person C awakens. Now, Person C ....

Person C.      Suffering 0.         Seeking 0.     JOY, &. RE-JOYcing.   

*Again, keep in mind that living life via a thought story is suffering. 

“Can you describe it?”

Yes. Reality as it is. No thought stories. 

When one ignores sensations, thinking then supplies a thought story to accommodate the ignore-ance. Thought story “makes sense” of the experience, but does not include the simple fact that one has ignored the sensations. Why not? Because it’s thinking. It is not sensations. Thinking has no need for concern of sensations, nor concern of the avoidance / ignore-ance of sensations. 

[ajasatya]

50 minutes ago, AlphaAbundance said:

Why seek enlightenment?

there's no reason. forget about it.

[purerogue]

Will it sound strange if I will say that you can enjoy suffering ? 

 

[AlphaAbundance]

@ajasatya Thanks bro! I guess I'll just go become a stock brocker and chase money for the rest of my life.

[AlphaAbundance]

@Nahm That's alot to take in but I think I now understand the first part well. For the second part, so experiencing reality as it is without thoughts is true joy? Basically the idea of Being? It is unconceivable to me how that is enjoyable - seems to be the most boring thing ever (neither hedonic or eudaimonic). Is it like you are at the content level you would be at if you received 100 million dollars (or more consciously if you impacted a million people's lives) but without judging anything to be good or bad?

[Rilles]

Its fun. This conceptual idea called me loves to look at itself and bask in the mystery of awareness. Are there any rewards? Alot of joy. Probably more in the future.  

Moving away from the mind and intellectual territory into just watching is the most refreshing and revitalizing thing ever. Its like drinking ice-cold water in the desert for an overthinker. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Rilles

[AlphaAbundance]

@purerogue @purerogueSay less. How do I do that?

Edited April 3, 2019 by AlphaAbundance

[AlphaAbundance]

@Rilles Ahh man why can't I get that everytime I meditate it's boring asf feeling into sensations and awareness

[Rilles]

5 minutes ago, AlphaAbundance said:

@Rilles Ahh man why can't I get that everytime I meditate it's boring asf feeling into sensations and awareness

Dont worry about it. Just do it when you feel it’s right. Rupert Spira once said that self-inquiry shouldn’t be a must, you do it cause you love it otherwise you can just do something else, play video games or whatever. But you can cultivate the love and curiosity if you want. 

[AlphaAbundance]

@Rilles How do you cultivate the love and curiousity?

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, AlphaAbundance said:

@Nahm That's alot to take in but I think I now understand the first part well. For the second part, so experiencing reality as it is without thoughts is true joy?

Find out. 

Basically the idea of Being?

An idea of Being is an attractively disguised belief. Being is Being. An idea of itself is not itself, it’s an idea. Using the word “itself” instead you, and also the word you, are all helpful as pointing but very misleading in actuality.  

It is unconceivable to me how that is enjoyable - seems to be the most boring thing ever (neither hedonic or eudaimonic)

Understandable but someone who never experienced a cell phone might have an idea it’s useless. An idea of using a cell phone is not like using a cell phone, when you haven’t ever used one.     Also, relatively, hedonic & eudaimonic happen dualistically within JOY. Though both are typically on the path. Nothing wrong with either. JOY is transcendent, or, the actuality of reality, not of what goes on within it. 

. Is it like you are at the content level you would be at if you received 100 million dollars (or more consciously if you impacted a million people's lives) but without judging anything to be good or bad?

If I understand that question.....JOY is transcendent to excitement, jubilation. IMO, it’s in the same neighborhood as an unconditioned perspective. I have no idea what impacting a million peoples’ lives is like. 

Btw, everything I’m saying is just empty words. Like a model that’s empty, and can’t actually be modeled, because you’re applying the meaning.   It’s only helpful, if that’s understood, and then your applied meaning is discarded for the actuality. 

 

 

 

[Truth Addict]

@AlphaAbundance

I don't know why they are pushing people so much to pursue enlightenment.

In my opinion, this can be underproductive.

Some people are meant to be athletes, some are meant to be doctors, some are meant to be mystics.

Yes, you can use psychedelics or whatever to realise God if you are an atheist.

But if you already believe in God, you just want happiness, and you can achieve it through faith and acceptance.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Truth Addict

[ajasatya]

7 hours ago, AlphaAbundance said:

@ajasatya Thanks bro! I guess I'll just go become a stock brocker and chase money for the rest of my life.

not sure if you were being sarcastic, but i was being serious.

this kind of work requires a deep inner thirst. it's like an unstoppable drive for ultimate clarity. if you're here questioning why you should even do it, then it's certainly not for you.