Embracing not knowing and confusion

[DecemberFlower]

From my understanding Leo and many teachers speak about opening ourselves to not knowing mind because it opens us to be more curious about life and inner growth.Life is a very chaotic and you never know what is going to happen tomorrow or by engaging in certain situations and activities.Embracing confusion is seen as having a great value to us.However it seems to me like we are fighting against something very natural to our mind.Like the need to go eat when we are hungry or drink when we are thirsty.My mind struggles hard with that notion about embracing confusion in life.Isnt being certain in what we want in life and in knowing our values and strenghts a good thing?   

[Leo Gura]

@DecemberFlower That certainty in your purpose will naturally develop as you gain more experience.

The point is to keep an open mind. The open mind applies more to new perspectives and ideas, rather than your values and stengths. You don't need to be too skeptical of your values and strengths. Listen to your heart and you will discover your top values and strengths.

But you still need an open mind when it comes to new perspectives.

That's right, the mind craves certainty just like the body craves food. Which is why openmindness is so hard for people. It goes counter to that.

[kieranperez]

@DecemberFlower honestly I’ve found that the more I really embrace not knowing the more grounded and in touch I am with myself because not knowing is already the case. Not knowing is kinda like an ego death in the sense that we’re often so afraid and struggle to let go of our points of view because of how much we cling to them but the moment you get free the more free you are. It’s like an overweight person finally dropping 100 pounds from 260-160. I imagine for someone like that it’s this sense of ‘look at how much more I can do now that I’m rid of all that?!’

To really get and create to anything new, deep, and profound, not knowing needs to be recognized. This is exciting because now you have enough consciousness and groundedness to see the possibility of something new that you’ve (and depending on your ambition, something no one else has) never done before. 

One of the ways I practice deconstructing my own positions, beliefs, assumptions and having my awareness of them is questioning the people I follow and also the people I criticize simultaneously. 

For example, I’ve fallen so many times without recognition blindly believing @Leo Gura because I get certainty from him because I really resonate with the personality, style of charisma, the background he’s given on his life that matches similar to myself, and a lot more. I was going down this point where I’d disagree and shun anyone he’s disagreed with on video without actually looking for myself. To go further, if I say watched Jordan Peterson, I’d see him in “the light of my assumption and prejudice”. So if Jordan Peterson would say something in a certain video (let’s say he’s bashing postmodernism and “snowflake culture”) that disagreed with a point Leo made in one video, I would start to contemplate such that I get to the point where I recognize that all I did was make a bunch of assumptions. NOT “oh Leo is wrong” or “JP is full of shit” but that I don’t know. NOW the inquiry and investigation can begin.

 I find not knowing incredibly empowering. 

As far confusion with one’s life and life purpose, I know exactly about that because for me I’ve always been (I find significantly more than other people) extremely impressionable. So I’ll look for role models but than I get stuck fantasizing about role models and possible routes without being in touch with me. If you’ve taken the LP course and you have your values and your strengths and you feel solid on them but you still feel stuck on your impact and your ZoG, try just doing to the reprogramming the subconscious mind exercises on those and see what comes up. Follow your values and strengths (whichever resonate more with you) and see what happens.

Edited April 2, 2019 by kieranperez

[Joseph Maynor]

7 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@DecemberFlowerFor example, I’ve fallen so many times without recognition blindly believing @Leo Gura because I get certainty from him because I really resonate with the personality, style of charisma, the background he’s given on his life that matches similar to myself.

I’ve noticed this too.  Watch out for this.  This is a real trap for some people who are not free thinking enough.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[kieranperez]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

I’ve noticed this too.  Watch out for this.

It’s so tricky and really funny how that works. 

[DecemberFlower]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@DecemberFlower That certainty in your purpose will naturally develop as you gain more experience.

The point is to keep an open mind. The open mind applies more to new perspectives and ideas, rather than your values and stengths. You don't need to be too skeptical of your values and strengths. Listen to your heart and you will discover your top values and strengths.

But you still need an open mind when it comes to new perspectives.

That's right, the mind craves certainty just like the body craves food. Which is why openmindness is so hard for people. It goes counter to that.

@Leo Gura Yep thats what I am lacking right now..too little life experience to put pieces together properly and too much information and theoretical knowledge

 

 

 

[Aakash]

@kieranperez i second what david said, its ironic but its the simplest trick to realising you are already aware, you don't actually need all this mind stuff to recognise your true self, there are many paths but the kriya path only works for those that have done alot of contemplation for themselves, otherwise you have no choice but to believe leo by default, because your not able to think of the infinite causation links yourself between paradoxes. 

suffice to say, my biggest breakthroughs have come in silence and just being aware

[DecemberFlower]

29 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@DecemberFlower honestly I’ve found that the more I really embrace not knowing the more grounded and in touch I am with myself because not knowing is already the case. Not knowing is kinda like an ego death in the sense that we’re often so afraid and struggle to let go of our points of view because of how much we cling to them but the moment you get free the more free you are. It’s like an overweight person finally dropping 100 pounds from 260-160. I imagine for someone like that it’s this sense of ‘look at how much more I can do now that I’m rid of all that?!’

To really get and create to anything new, deep, and profound, not knowing needs to be recognized. This is exciting because now you have enough consciousness and groundedness to see the possibility of something new that you’ve (and depending on your ambition, something no one else has) never done before. 

One of the ways I practice deconstructing my own positions, beliefs, assumptions and having my awareness of them is questioning the people I follow and also the people I criticize simultaneously. 

For example, I’ve fallen so many times without recognition blindly believing @Leo Gura because I get certainty from him because I really resonate with the personality, style of charisma, the background he’s given on his life that matches similar to myself, and a lot more. I was going down this point where I’d disagree and shun anyone he’s disagreed with on video without actually looking for myself. To go further, if I say watched Jordan Peterson, I’d see him in “the light of my assumption and prejudice”. So if Jordan Peterson would say something in a certain video (let’s say he’s bashing postmodernism and “snowflake culture”) that disagreed with a point Leo made in one video, I would start to contemplate such that I get to the point where I recognize that all I did was make a bunch of assumptions. NOT “oh Leo is wrong” or “JP is full of shit” but that I don’t know. NOW the inquiry and investigation can begin.

 I find not knowing incredibly empowering. 

As far confusion with one’s life and life purpose, I know exactly about that because for me I’ve always been (I find significantly more than other people) extremely impressionable. So I’ll look for role models but than I get stuck fantasizing about role models and possible routes without being in touch with me. If you’ve taken the LP course and you have your values and your strengths and you feel solid on them but you still feel stuck on your impact and your ZoG, try just doing to the reprogramming the subconscious mind exercises on those and see what comes up. Follow your values and strengths (whichever resonate more with you) and see what happens.

Does the recognition of not knowing in direct experience feels similar like no self insight?I mean when you really get and understand on deep level that you actually dont know there is no doubt in that insight or its just like a thought story your mind creates to amuse itself?I am asking because its always possible mind will deceive myself into believing that i got into some state of not knowing instead of actually experiencing the insight.After all not knowing is a state of mind isnt it?

Edited April 2, 2019 by DecemberFlower

[Mu_]

17 minutes ago, DecemberFlower said:

Does the recognition of not knowing in direct experience feels similar like no self insight?I mean when you really get and understand on deep level that you actually dont know there is no doubt in that insight or its just like a thought story your mind creates to amuse itself?

Hi December flower. Not knowing can be much like no mind or lead to no mind and it’s something anyone can begin with. You just have to get use to anxiety happening sometimes and understanding that it’s as a result of the mind not knowing and not a problem In You That needs fixing or means something wrong in the world you need do something about to create safety. 

 

For example if you take it upon yourself to look into your beliefs about yourself or the world. A lot of them would be false. 

For example a lot of people believe for fact that the Big Bang is the explanation for the start of the universe. However if your really honest your probably just taking someone’s word for it and don’t know. Even if you did know and see all the evidence it’s still just a likelihood not a fact. 

Or if you have an idea that maybe your fat and no one like you because of it is probably just your idea and the truth is you don’t know what ‘everyone’ thinks about you. Maybe just a few people who shared a momentary opinion (these change to and aren’t fact and stable either and can be a relief to realize about opinions since we hold to much weight about them). 

Or maybe you think if you get lots of money and friends you will be happy. But if your really honest you don’t know what will happpen and if these friends will turn out to be more of a pain then you hoped or the money just led to people wanting more from you or made you want to go spend spend spend and this leaves you drained. 

Get what I’m saying?  

 

Also yiu May notice that this investigation leads to a lot of wisdom about yourself and others along with really not knowing much for certain (this is a type of freedom you learn to appreciate if you can get through the challenges of anxiety and why not that your mind will sometimes depend and scream ? to know)

Edited April 2, 2019 by Mu_

[DecemberFlower]

9 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Hi December flower. Not knowing can be much like no mind or lead to no mind and it’s something anyone can begin with. You just have to get use to anxiety happening sometimes and understanding that it’s as a result of the mind not knowing and not a problem In You That needs fixing or means something wrong in the world you need do something about to create safety. 

 

For example if you take it upon yourself to look into your beliefs about yourself or the world. A lot of them would be false. 

For example a lot of people believe for fact that the Big Bang is the explanation for the start of the universe. However if your really honest your probably just taking someone’s word for it and don’t know. Even if you did know and see all the evidence it’s still just a likelihood not a fact. 

Or if you have an idea that maybe your fat and no one like you because of it is probably just your idea and the truth is you don’t know what ‘everyone’ thinks about you. Maybe just a few people who shared a momentary opinion (these change to and aren’t fact and stable either and can be a relief to realize about opinions since we hold to much weight about them). 

Or maybe you think if you get lots of money and friends you will be happy. But if your really honest you don’t know what will happpen and if these friends will turn out to be more of a pain then you hoped or the money just led to people wanting more from you or made you want to go spend spend spend and this leaves you drained. 

Get what I’m saying?  

 

Also yiu May notice that this investigation leads to a lot of wisdom about yourself and others along with really not knowing much for certain (this is a type of freedom you learn to appreciate if you can get through the challenges of anxiety and why not that your mind will sometimes depend and scream ? to know)

@Mu_ Thanks for clarification:) Lets say i understand what you are trying to convey to me but on intellectual level only..it seems to me like my mind is yet too much clinging to its "knowledge" to allow for experience to happen.More belief deconstruction is needed

But when you say its similar to no mind or lead to no mind do you mean its compared to certain type of feeling like what you say anxiety or is anxiety just a defense mechanism of mind grasping to security when you enter the not knowing state?Is it a specific state of mind which is immediately obvious when it happens?Like when it hits you there is no doubt its happening thats what i mean

 

 

[kieranperez]

35 minutes ago, DecemberFlower said:

Does the recognition of not knowing in direct experience feels similar like no self insight?I mean when you really get and understand on deep level that you actually dont know there is no doubt in that insight or its just like a thought story your mind creates to amuse itself?I am asking because its always possible mind will deceive myself into believing that i got into some state of not knowing instead of actually experiencing the insight.After all not knowing is a state of mind isnt it?

You don’t know. Start there. You yourself, start there. Investigate. Find out. No answer I can give you helps. 

Direct.Experience.

[Leo Gura]

@DecemberFlower At what minute of the day were you born?

You don't know. Notice that. That's not-knowing.

Now apply that to all areas of life.

[Jkris]

@Leo Gura That's beautiful. Not knowing is complete blankness. No thoughts. But still one can experience the not knowing absence of thoughts for the few seconds before mind accepts that it does not know and takes over again. Is that self? ?