Where do I start?

[kieranperez]

@mandyjw god your full of shit and all talk

Edited April 2, 2019 by kieranperez

[FoxFoxFox]

17 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I have noticed that as well. Thank you for your suggestion - I think that could be helpful to those in that type of need.

I think it is a challenging issue to address.  Yet for another user to post an inaccurate inflammatory narrative and accusations about it isn't helpful. 

Specially since the pursuit of enlightenment (if done improperly) can lead to depression. All it takes is for a person to mistakingly identify with nothingness instead of getting rid of identification altogether. That is the recipe for depression, nihilism, and potentially suicide. 

[Paul92]

11 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

Specially since the pursuit of enlightenment (if done improperly) can lead to depression. All it takes is for a person to mistakingly identify with nothingness instead of getting rid of identification altogether. That is the recipe for depression, nihilism, and potentially suicide. 

Which is, essentially, where I think I am at right now. Everything has lost its colour and I really don't know how it'll come back. For me, being an individual human, and others being individual humans meant everything. It's what I thrived off. It's going to take a lot of processing I think.

[mandyjw]

31 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@mandyjw god your full of shit and all talk

All talk is shit. 

[FoxFoxFox]

3 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

Which is, essentially, where I think I am at right now. Everything has lost its colour and I really don't know how it'll come back. For me, being an individual human, and others being individual humans meant everything. It's what I thrived off. It's going to take a lot of processing I think.

Inquire into this "I" you believe in so thoroughly. Is it actually there? Can you find where it comes from? How certain are you that this sense of being an "I" is actually founded in reality and not an illusion?

The point is not to identify with nothingness, the point is to lose all identification - which is surrender. 

[Paul92]

@FoxFoxFox Well it's clearly a fabrication of the mind. But how can any living creature not have a sense of self?

Shouldn't we just take control our narrative?

 

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

Shouldn't we just take control our narrative?

Ime, that is a key issue at the "deeper" levels. It goes deeper than the intellect and trying to figure it out. For me, it can get really uncomfortable, yet also liberating.

[cetus]

10 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Wow.  I'm not sure this is the best way to respond to someone on the Forum who is critical Leo.  This reminds me of parents who say, "Don't talk back to me."  I think we want people to be smartasses on here, to talk back.  We should be secure enough in ourselves to deal with the content of the issues they raise instead of pooh-poohing them or hand-waiving them away.  Mandy is one of the smartest people on here.  She deserves to be taken seriously -- although she has a great sense of humor too.

 

[Shaun]

If you look at videos of enlightened people, you will notice how happy and peaceful they look. The journey is the hardest thing but at the end, there is peace.

[kieranperez]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Wow.  I'm not sure this is the best way to respond to someone on the Forum who is critical Leo.  This reminds me of parents who say, "Don't talk back to me."  I think we want people to be smartasses on here, to talk back.  We should be secure enough in ourselves to deal with the content of the issues they raise instead of pooh-poohing them or hand-waiving them away.  Mandy is one of the smartest people on here.  She deserves to be taken seriously -- although she has a great sense of humor too.

I know where you’re coming from but this is a false analaysis. 

A newb meditator talking to a Zen master about how much he knows and what not is in no place to talk shit. That master has every right to look that newb dead in the eyes and shut him up. 

If you’re being coach by Phil Jackson in basketball and you’re a decent adequate basketball player, yeah you have the right to learn, ask questions as far as your learning goes, but you’re not in a position of authority to espouse stuff. 

There are certainly problems with having authority but there’s certainly a place for someone who knows what they’re talking about to shut people who are talking out of their ass. 

[cetus]

@Joseph Maynor Sorry quoted you by accident there.

[kieranperez]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Saying "don't be a smartass to me" is weak, sorry.

There’s nothing weak about calling someone out for their behavior. 

Belittle the behavior. Not the person. 

[kieranperez]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Mandy has great behavior in my opinion and is one of the smartest people on here.

If you’ve never met her, you don’t know.

Someone can be loving 22 hours of the day and still be a raging moron another 2 hours. You’re telling me that 2 hours of being a raging moron shouldn’t be addressed?

I can be a smart contributor of this forum 99% of the time but can still have a post where I act like an arrogant know-it-all. That behavior of being an arrogant know-it-all in that post is what’s being  addressed. 

Theres a lot of non-dual keyboard warriors that are totally full of it on here (not saying this person is nor do I care nor does it matter) that dilute a lot of posts and actually lack total compassion because they’re dedicated to their non dual elitist talk and defending this front they have of being some awakened blah blah blah. This needs to be addressed more actually. 

[Nahm]

@Paul92

“Where do I start?”

That’s the best question you could be asking right now. You’re trying to start at self realization and work down so to speak, and finding out that does not work at all - because you just have a bunch of thoughts and ideas about self realization. Let it go already. When you want to, stop trying so hard to be right, and start being happy. 

“How can I return to normality” = I’m overthinking and lost in thought stories, how do I realize I’m just sitting here and I’m safe, and fine? 

None of this depression is about existentialism. It’s about your perspective on yourself, and your life.  Write on paper about how you’re feeling. Start therapy. Get a massage. Try Reiki. Go to a Meet Up with people going through similar things. Get outside and breathe. Call up a friend, or family. 

 

9 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I know understand there is no 'me' or 'you'. It's pretty obvious. Which is hard for this body/mind, or whatever it is, to process.

It can’t be “understood” & “obvious” and at the same time something to “process”.  Let it go. Breathe deeply and relax and let it go. Do something else that is only for your happiness, for your well being.  

I'm in a complete meltdown again, and I've been looking for a way out.

Try relaxing, going for a walk, watching a funny movie, etc. Take better care of yourself. 

My doctor put me on anti depressants and I started taking them a few days ago and the anxiety and suicidal thoughts have just gone through the roof. I was always someone who thrived off our individuality. On us being separate entities. I have said before I loved helping other people, because I wanted to make a difference to their absolute unique experience. Knowing that we can't possible be individuals, even though we feel like it, takes a lot of colour out of this existence, from this perspective.

Trust those feelings you mention there. Let all the thinking go - since, as you stated, it is causing your suffering. 

I think I have to start the 'path'. Because it is the only hope I have left to enjoy whatever this is and not suffer. I am tired of suffering (though, before I realised the truth, I can't say I suffered as much) But my greatest realisation, above everything, is that there is no 'me'. Which, as I say, takes the colour out of the experience. Others on here might say that it makes the experience lighter, but at the moment, that is not how it seems for me.So what do I have to do?

Do you want to be right, impressive, smart, etc - or happy? It’s simple. I know it’s not appearing easy to you and you’re in a really tough place right now, but don’t mistake that for complexity. It’s not complicated, it’s simple. 

I try and be present but it is unbelievably difficult. Is this where I start? Can anyone help me, please?

Everyone can help you. Let out as much as you can, honestly express as best you can. 

My ego heart is broken at the moment, as I ballsed up a relationship with a girl. After I realised that basically, I was falling for something that isn't real. But the pain is real. The thought of her with someone else is devastating, even though I know, it's not real!

Has nothing at all to do with what is real / not real. It’s actually simple, you believed you needed her for you to be able to feel happiness. You believed the happiness was coming from her. That was never true. Your happiness was experienced because of how you were looking at things. Your current suffering is the same, you are experiencing how you’re looking at things. Now, you’re reeling because you’re still trying to be “right” about that. You can let it go, whenever you’re ready to. It’ll feel good. This is that “letting go” people have been talking about, and you can do it too.

Please, I really need help. I have a lot of questions.

I’m happy to help anytime you want. We can talk through some things here and get some clarity, we can PM, we can skype, etc. Up to you. 

 

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

I just want to inform you that people here are committing suicide all the time, there has been many suicides already. And also: most of the suicide threads gets deleted immediately so only a few see the threads during that short time. They don't just get locked. But I'm not blaming actualized.

And who knows how many does it without starting a thread.

Just to get you out of your cute little bubble, with a dose of reality.

This is a tough way to address your beliefs and work through that armor. You don’t have to be this tough on yourself. You could do it like people regularly do, in therapy, or talking with someone who can listen, and wants to help. Not sure this is going to help you, publicizing your outbursts and making accusations like that. You know people made threads, and you read what they said. What you don’t see are their intentions, or what they actually did or didn’t do. For your own well being Mikael, make the distinction between what you’re experiencing, and your beliefs.

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

all that was really required was to stop putting attention on thought and see what remained. 

For me, thought is one aspect/layer. When attention is no longer on thought, attention is put on XXX. Thought is merely one of many "things" attention can be placed on. For me, I spent many years of my life paying attention to thought. When I became aware of that, I thought that was it. Yet then I would start having a minute or so without thought. Then 10min. without a thought. Then I realized this doesn't stop at thoughts. Thought is merely one player.

For me it's like putting all attention on the trumpet player in a jazz band. When I stop doing that, I realize there are other musicians in the band. Attention can be placed on another jazz player. Each has their own niche and they are all integrated together to make the song.

[Girzo]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Saying "don't be a smartass to me" is weak, sorry. 

That's kind of true. Like, it's not enough to be right, you also have to be polite. Not because it will make them sad, but for a reason that they won't listen. 

Communication is a tricky business.

[Paul92]

@Nahm  Thank you for that. I really appreciate it. I can't carry on like this, so I have to do something. I'd really appreciate a conversation over PM or something, please.

I don't want to be smart or impressive. I do want to be happy of course.

As for the relationship, I can promise you I never saw it as my way of being happy. I would never tell anyone that their entire happiness should rest on a relationship with another. I enjoyed it though. It was good to see another human being happy, too. So I would do things to make her happy. She's suffered herself and is a nervous wreck at times. So I wanted to help her. Even after we have broken things off, I do not bare any bad feelings towards her at all. I wouldn't want a hair on her head harmed. I just miss her that's all. Permission to be human, please?

[Aakash]

18 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

It did. 10 years of all that rafting when all that was really required was to stop putting attention on thought and see what remained. 

That's all it takes. 

i hear ya, this was my most luckiest breakthrough, if i never did this by luck, i would still be stuck in a circle, and it probably would have taken me 10 years, the weirdest thing was, it was only because i got a headache, that i even discovered the silence in no thought and consciousness. 

[Ananta]

2 hours ago, FoxFoxFox said:

Specially since the pursuit of enlightenment (if done improperly) can lead to depression. All it takes is for a person to mistakingly identify with nothingness instead of getting rid of identification altogether. That is the recipe for depression, nihilism, and potentially suicide. 

Hello,

My question is regarding the bolded sentence. I'm not a buddhist. I use the term awareness vs. using the term nothingness, but do you mind eleborating on what you mean by "getting rid of identification altogether"?