The thought dilemma

[SoonHei]

10 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

Maybe God is hiding right behind that "I".

@FoxFoxFox bless up <3

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

@FoxFoxFox  A happy person discovering enlightenment = sadhguru style... All going well in life and boom, discovering you have been standing on the mountain of Gold

 

In contrast... Eckhart tolle, all going bad in life and boom, discovering it is not happening to YOU

I've been through the eckhart phase.

My life right now is worse than ever before in materialistic terms.

Yet, I'm happy, truly happy. And I wouldn't trade my happiness for anything in the world, or even for the whole world.

In fact, I would sell myself to buy more happiness.

1 hour ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Truth Addict

Then stop being a human being. The choice really is there.

Tell this to someone who is in pain, and then experience some pain, and then repeat it again.

Stop playing dead while you're still alive, the choice is really there.

1 hour ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Truth Addict

Inquire in the "I" who wants God-realization then. See if it's really there. Maybe God is hiding right behind that "I".

I will ?, and thank you for this great conversation 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Aakash]

wow, i'm actually shocked at the level of attachment that occurs when you don't really know your true nature. 

no offence dude that is

but yeah inquire into the I and youll be all good! 

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict No worries. Like i said, if you truly are happy, there is not much point chasing enlightenment.

[Truth Addict]

@FoxFoxFox if I chase enlightenment for happiness, that would be the ego.

I chase it because I am genuinely curious to know what this life is all about.

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict Yes that is correct. The intentions really don't matter in the end because all fall away at the last moment. Enlightenment isn't ever what you think it is. It's not God realization, those are just in the mind. The experience if you want to call it that is completely indescribable. Calling it void and bliss is already too much. Enlightenment doesn't resolve the paradoxes of the mind by giving verbal answers - all those are still allegories and metaphors. It is what it is. 

[Truth Addict]

@FoxFoxFox

I think what you're describing is an enlightenment experience, not the enlightenment itself.

I want to embody enlightenment, and I want it to stick with me forever, I don't care what the experience is.

[thesmileyone]

4 hours ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Truth Addict Well, life will smack you on the head and then you won't be happy. In fact you will be miserable. As long as a trace of "I-ness" remains, there is potential for suffering. Bliss is the Self's nature. To the Self it doesn't matter what the actors on the stage say or do, whether they live on or die. The Self will remain eternally blissful. 

Ultimately the choice is yours. If you believe you are already happy and that you do not lack anything, there is no reason to search for enlightenment. 

In some of my upcycles, I have even felt gratitude just because I can experience life throwing shit in my face.

[thesmileyone]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

@FoxFoxFox

I think what you're describing is an enlightenment experience, not the enlightenment itself.

I want to embody enlightenment, and I want it to stick with me forever, I don't care what the experience is.

But the translation of that is really "my mind wants to embody enlightenment and it wants enlightenment to stick with me forever" because YOU, outside but including your mind, is already enlightened.

All the path to enlightenment is, (in a way the mind can understand) is a deletion of "not required" to get to true nature. Think about it. You are already Self. You are just living from the mind instead of pure Self.

In this image, you are both 9, 3 and 6, but the mind in unawakened people only sees 3, in people like us who understand nonduality but are not enlightened, we only see 3 and 6. But the WHOLE TIME we have been either 3 or 3 and 6, we have been 9. 9 not only represents the entire circle but everything outside of the circle.

Now, I KNOW this and I understand it, but I only get glimpses of it experientally. Therefore I am not enlightened. One day, hopefully in this lifetime, 3 and 6 will merge into 9 and that's how life will occur to me. I've done all the work already, just gotta wait. And I have noticed the changes. The path to nothing is not all fun!

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by thesmileyone

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict No. It only appears so because there is no way to talk about it properly. There is no such thing as an enlightened experience. Your wants and desires only strengthen the ego-identification. They are what result in "I-ness". Once "I-ness" goes out the window, that is permanent enlightenment. 

[Truth Addict]

@thesmileyone

So, again this is something I understand.

The whole God and devil analogy, I'm quite familiar with it.

But I'm not going to pretend that I'm enlightened and that I am God like other people do.

I'll just be honest and let the rest to be decided by God himself, I'll do what I can, and if God wants me to awaken that's perfect, if not, that is still good. I've learned how to enjoy my life, I've learned that less is more.

Intellectually, I understand all that.

I just don't feel it on a cellular level (not 100% sure).

I prefer not-knowing than pretending to know.

@FoxFoxFox

According to Leo in his latest video, no-self is not the ultimate Truth.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Truth Addict

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict Yes. In the sense that the Self unfolds itself. At this point, language is entirely pointless, but if you gonna pull my leg, it "evolves" from pure void to voidbliss and then some. 

[thesmileyone]

Quote

I'll just be honest and let the rest to be decided by God himself, I'll do what I can, and if God wants me to awaken that's perfect, if not, that is still good. I've learned how to enjoy my life, I've learned that less is more.

But by that statement, you are living from the mind putting power in something external to you to make your decisions for you.

There are tools to get round this such as self enquiry, yet I see people spending more time reinforcing their minds belief structure than doing the work...

[WelcometoReality]

On 2019-04-02 at 10:30 AM, Truth Addict said:

Yes, but I don't know any better for now.

What would you do?

What can you trust then? Thoughts come and go so they can't really be trusted aswell as any experience. What's always here? That's what can be trusted.

[Truth Addict]

48 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

What's always here? That's what can be trusted.

How do you know?

Edited April 15, 2019 by Truth Addict

[WelcometoReality]

Just now, Truth Addict said:

How do you know?

Because it never disappears. It's always here.

[Truth Addict]

13 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Because it never disappears. It's always here.

And that's not a thought? Why is permanence a valid criterion? Permanence requires time and memory, both of which you might consider illusions.

Anyway, it disappears when I sleep, or at least it seems so.

Plus, what about the future, when I die? Will it be there after I die? How do you know?

Edited April 16, 2019 by Truth Addict

[WelcometoReality]

11 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

And that's not a thought? Why is permanence a valid criterion? Permanence requires time and memory, both of which you might consider illusions.

Anyway, it disappears when I sleep, or at least it seems so.

Plus, what about the future, when I die? Will it be there after I die? How do you know?

Can you trust anything with an impermanent quality?

It's not a thought. It's the foundation of any experience.

[Truth Addict]

On 15/04/2019 at 10:34 PM, WelcometoReality said:

Because it never disappears. It's always here.

This is the thought, it's a thought about the Absolute.

32 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Can you trust anything with an impermanent quality?

It's not a thought. It's the foundation of any experience.

To me it's just a thought, I haven't experienced it.

And no, I can't trust anything at all. What is trust to begin with?

[WelcometoReality]

9 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

And no, I can't trust anything at all. What is trust to begin with?

You trusted the thought that questioned didn't you?

It's good to question what actually is real but if the answer is from the mind you haven't really answered the question. The answer is outside of thought.