The thought dilemma

[Truth Addict]

3 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

So there is a thought of snakes and fear arises and the story is that the thought made the fear arise?

Yes.

And the other story is that the real snake made the fear arise.

[WelcometoReality]

19 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Yes.

And the other story is that the real snake made the fear arise.

Because the conclusions are made from thought?

[FoxFoxFox]

7 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

It's not there, but this is irrelevant.

This is the only thing that is relevant. All the paradoxes will resolve themselves when I-ness has fully subsided. The discussion here is frankly pointless because it's based on assumptions that are non-existent. 

[Truth Addict]

7 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

Because the conclusions are made from thought?

Yes.

2 hours ago, FoxFoxFox said:

This is the only thing that is relevant. All the paradoxes will resolve themselves when I-ness has fully subsided. The discussion here is frankly pointless because it's based on assumptions that are non-existent. 

Yes, yes. I'll wait and see.

[Joseph Maynor]

 

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Yes.

So doesn't the conclusion that thought can't be trusted come from thought?

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

So doesn't the conclusion that thought can't be trusted come from thought?

Yes, but I don't know any better for now.

What would you do?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict The mind is not the right tool for self-realization. 

[Truth Addict]

Just now, FoxFoxFox said:

@Truth Addict The mind is not the right tool for self-realization. 

What is?

[Truth Addict]

4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

I watched both videos.

I agree with everything Sadhguru said.

It all makes sense to me, and I'm not skipping the obvious, I've thought through all that, and came up with the same conclusions.

What you (not you in particular) don't see is that you've bought the idea that we can't know anything.

I haven't bought it yet, maybe I can't know, but also maybe I can.

Maybe belief is all I can know, but notice how people here rage wars against beliefs.

I believe some stuff, and I'm aware that I believe them, stop assuming that I'm a total noob.

I appreciate life and the beauty of it, in fact, I love spending a lot of time outside in nature.

I've achieved happiness, I can stop thinking almost whenever I want, and if I fail I can surrender myself to it.

My questions are beyond just happiness, they're about security, if possible. That's all.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Truth Addict

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict Self-inquiry -> Surrender

[Truth Addict]

3 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Truth Addict Self-inquiry -> Surrender

Not to sound smart or anything, but from my experience, surrendering only produces happiness.

I don't see how it can make me realise Truth, but anyway, I'll keep on inquiring and find out.

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict True happiness is a great indicator of progress towards liberation. True happiness is not derived from objects, but within, without any reasons whatsoever. Bliss is our real nature.  

[Truth Addict]

6 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Truth Addict True happiness is a great indicator of progress towards liberation. True happiness is not derived from objects, but within, without any reasons whatsoever. Bliss is our real nature.  

What if I already have it?

Of course, I'm not claiming that I can survive the worst situations possible and stay happy, I wouldn't bet on that.

But, right now, I'm as far from suffering as any human being could be, fully surrendered to what is.

I'm aware of how suffering is created, and I can choose to either avoid it, or accept it.

I've achieved happiness by letting go of happiness.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Aakash]

@Truth Addict its a weird one, but i don't think you can have unconditional happiness unless your self-realised, 

sounds more like a rejection than an acceptance

you have to be genuinely happy if your house was on fire and you were about to die, that's real happiness ,

just the way you analyse it, is different as you believe your still a seperate self 

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict Well, life will smack you on the head and then you won't be happy. In fact you will be miserable. As long as a trace of "I-ness" remains, there is potential for suffering. Bliss is the Self's nature. To the Self it doesn't matter what the actors on the stage say or do, whether they live on or die. The Self will remain eternally blissful. 

Ultimately the choice is yours. If you believe you are already happy and that you do not lack anything, there is no reason to search for enlightenment. 

[SoonHei]

@FoxFoxFox the issue comes from the fact that one maybe happy as a person but not as the ultimate Self... 

If a person living a happy life wishes to discover his true nature for the sake of finding himself/God alone... Should he seek? Or just simply realize it?

 

A happy person discovering enlightenment = sadhguru style... All going well in life and boom, discovering you have been standing on the mountain of Gold

 

In contrast... Eckhart tolle, all going bad in life and boom, discovering it is not happening to YOU

[Truth Addict]

@FoxFoxFox @Aakash

Sure, only death can end all suffering.

As long as you are a human being with survival needs, you won't be able to maintain 100% happiness all the time.

To me, 99% happiness is enough.

I don't want enlightenment for happiness, I want it for God-realisation.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Truth Addict

[FoxFoxFox]

@Truth Addict

Quote

As long as you are a human being with survival needs, you won't be able to maintain 100% happiness all the time.

Then stop being a human being. The choice really is there.

Quote

I don't want enlightenment for happiness, I want it for God-realisation.

Inquire in the "I" who wants God-realization then. See if it's really there. Maybe God is hiding right behind that "I".

[Aakash]

@SoonHei it doesn't make a difference, because the happiness that you talk about is different to real happiness anyway, 

sure a person can be happy with false happiness and seek enlightenment 

but ultimately i think they will want to experience real happiness after they deconstructed their viewpoint on happiness .

its dumb but non of the words we use actually represent the truth sadly. 

hence i've realised its only after you realise what self-realisation is that you understand words.