is there even a point to do 60 minute self inquiry sits if 99.9% is monkey mind?

[purerogue]

Hmm, well if thoughts , sensations get in your way then you can try bit different approach, you clearly are trying to let go of them by unintentionally focusing on them ,  but there is always option to let them be , but not focus on them, will take some time  and might seem to be to much to ask from you right now, but that is another way to go about it and will be very beneficial further on your path.   

[moon777light]

3 hours ago, FoxFoxFox said:

No, being still despite of the mind

thanks, i'll keep this in mind in my next session, be aware of thoughts not to dispel them away. My head actually physically started to hurt so much during the session by how hard i was trying to be aware lol

4 hours ago, Preetom said:

I heard David godman saying that the purpose of self inquiry is not peace. Its purpose is to destroy the subject.

As you are new to this, search for the perceiver. It doesnt matter what thought or emotion arise. Phenomena has absolutely no significance in self inquiry. The vision of an angel is as insignificant as a scratch on the back in self inquiry. Try over and over no matter how many times you fail or wanna pull your hair off.

this puts a different perspective to it, thanks. 

@ajasatya cant do it now, i have studying to do

4 hours ago, molosku said:

If you feel super confused or catch yourself monkey minding, return to your amness, the most obvious experience of being yourself for a while, just for like 10-30 seconds. Dont over complicate it. Then restart your inquiry.

i thought this was the point of inquiry? to focus on your amness? what do you mean by focus on amness then continue inquiry

3 hours ago, Aaron p said:

Also, don't see self enquiry as something where you need to quiet your mind...not at all. If your mind is being busy, ask...who is the one who is having these thoughts? Is it a person? Ok, which aspect of the person is not removable? Where is the solid ground that cannot move?

thank you, as i read more answers, im starting to understand that the point isnt to get my thoughts to stop, however many there may be and however fast they may come up, but to just be aware of them. 

@cetus56 thank you so much

@David Hammond thanks, this is similar to what rupert spira was doing during the guided self inquiry sitting

3 hours ago, Space said:

By consciously being aware, you are simultaneously being aware of being aware. You be aware of being aware by being aware - but consciously!

hahaha thats a mind-twister but it makes sense. During the self-inquiry video on this channel, Leo made it seem as if just being aware and putting focus on awareness itself is two different things. At least thats the way i understood it. And i think thats what made me confused. @Leo Gura thoughts?

@TheAvatarState yes i watched it and made detailed notes  the way i understood is that it takes yeeeaaars to get to the first step, which is differientating between true self and false self, and then a while to integrate them back.

@Enlightenment @Esoteric i havent even properly begun this yet. I dont think giving up something so quickly because of resistance will get me anywhere, i just did it twice in my life  I need to give this a proper run to see if it works with practice and time. Maybe it does, maybe it doesnt, i'll see

@nistake i have the kriya book and did a test run that year (it was awesome) but i had to stop because im lazy haha. My plan is to pick up this later this year, i don't want to stuff myself with too many things at once, because thats a good way to suck at everything haha and im busy with other life things. I plan to layer things one at a time 

@Joseph Maynor yes.

 

 

[cetus]

@moon777light  Your most welcome.

The practice of Zen mind is beginner's mind. The innocence of the first inquiry—what am I ?—is needed throughout Zen practice.

[moon777light]

@Nahm hmm kinda. I know theory-wise i need to focus on awareness, or the "observer" but im getting caught up in the thought stories. Ive experienced awareness but at such a small glimpse like a second that im not sure if its even awareness or just a passing sensation

@purerogue yeah thats what i plan to do next

[Shin]

What is reading those words ?

Your thoughts ?

[Nahm]

18 minutes ago, moon777light said:

focus on awareness,

I think that’s where you’re going wrong. You can’t focus on awareness, because you are awareness. 

Have you done meditation where you just breathe from your stomach, and when you notice your attention got “sucked into” thinking again....just return the attention to breathing from your stomach? 

[FoxFoxFox]

@moon777light

Quote

thanks, i'll keep this in mind in my next session, be aware of thoughts not to dispel them away. My head actually physically started to hurt so much during the session by how hard i was trying to be aware lol

That pain is awareness contracting. It's the physical sensation of identifying with awareness, or owning it to say it in different words. That pain will go away only when the "I" goes out the window. 

If you observe your body, there is an uneasy, anxious sensation in your sternum. It's only there if you identify with the body. 

[Leo Gura]

@moon777light It's still valuable, but if you feel you've stalled you might want to consider another method for a while.

Try Kriya yoga or counting the breath to build up your concentration.

Self-inquiry is an advanced practice which should only be done once you've calmed your mind down and are able to maintain some degree of concentration. Otherwise it just won't be effective.

In Zen they start newbies off with counting of the breath. It's actually quite smart to do so. Count each exhale from 1 up to 10, then repeat from 1. If you lose track, start over from 1.

Do this until your mind calms down and stops thinking about random stuff. Then you can turn towards self-inquiry more.

It might also be helpful for you to do self-inquiry using a journal. Question whatever you identify with and try to deconstruct it on paper. This process is very good for opening you up to not-knowing. At first this questioning will be conceptual. That's okay. You have a lot of conceptual baggage to deconstruct before you can just sit and focus on the I AMNESS. For example, are your memories you? Is your DNA you? Is your brain you? Are your sensations you? All of this must be questioned and deconstructed even just conceptually.

Sitting and focusing on the I AMNESS is a very advanced practice. It is really not for newbies. A newbie monkey mind cannot get traction with it. It's too busy, too active.

[Solace]

This is a fun exercise I do before deep meditation to calm the chatter. I came up with it because I wanted to soothe and open my troubled heart at the time.

From my perspective your monkey mind, your personal past, and your experience of life as you read this is perfect. If you notice while you sit for meditation that everything inside of your awareness is okay to be there, that it is perfect in its expression, that your resistance to perfection is perfect and your desire to change anything about yourself is perfect then you empower perfection in your life. Perfection is another name for God. 

I learnt through experience that resisting the mind, or seeing it as an obstacle, only makes it a bigger part of your life. This resistance can be very subtle. For example, a thought arises about my weekly grocery shop while meditating. I will then notice how this is perfectly okay for this thought to be in my experience right now. Subtly another thought arises, “It is not okay, my mind should be silent.”. Again I notice how perfect this inner resistance is, i allow it to exist. Whatever is the opposite to that which you see as perfect,  resistance in the form of a feeling often arises  e.g. you may think to yourself, these ideas about God sound so wonderful, but also I recognize that the ego, the opposite of God is perfect, and that my feelings of unworthiness in response to the word “perfect” is perfect. 

I do this for a few minutes, it is very easy to do. Maybe this will help you  

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Solace

[moon777light]

thanks everyone. After thinking, it'll will probably be better to do 3 month Kriya challenge to get a nice concentrating ability, then ill do self-inquiry.

19 hours ago, Nahm said:

I think that’s where you’re going wrong. You can’t focus on awareness, because you are awareness. 

Have you done meditation where you just breathe from your stomach, and when you notice your attention got “sucked into” thinking again....just return the attention to breathing from your stomach? 

yes, thats it. I have done those, but i get so distracted in the mind stories that i almost start falling asleep

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Sitting and focusing on the I AMNESS is a very advanced practice. It is really not for newbies. A newbie monkey mind cannot get traction with it. It's too busy, too active.

true, i think i tried to fly when i dont know how to walk yet. Probably not even crawl

12 hours ago, Solace said:

From my perspective your monkey mind, your personal past, and your experience of life as you read this is perfect. If you notice while you sit for meditation that everything inside of your awareness is okay to be there, that it is perfect in its expression, that your resistance to perfection is perfect and your desire to change anything about yourself is perfect then you empower perfection in your life. Perfection is another name for God. 

This is such a beautiful way to put it into perspective, ill give it a try thanks

[TheAvatarState]

21 hours ago, moon777light said:

it takes yeeeaaars to get to the first step, which is differientating between true self and false self

Not necessarily.

[Nahm]

@moon777light At a point I had to switch to first thing in the morning. It reduced overthinking and increased mindfulness. Started really slowing down and enjoying the days.  

[thesmileyone]

Eventually 1% will be monkey mind.

It took me roughly 10k hours of meditation to get to the point where monkey mind only occurs for about 30 seconds - 3 mins worst case scenario.

Of course, people don't want to do the work, due to being too influenced by our "pleasure on demand" society.

[Hello from Russia]

9 minutes ago, thesmileyone said:

Eventually 1% will be monkey mind.

It took me roughly 10k hours of meditation to get to the point where monkey mind only occurs for about 30 seconds - 3 mins worst case scenario.

Of course, people don't want to do the work, due to being too influenced by our "pleasure on demand" society.

How do you experience monkey mind in day-to-day scenarios now?

Edited April 1, 2019 by Hello from Russia

[thesmileyone]

In meditation it's just random thought for a few minutes, I ignore it. Note I do nirguna meditation, that is, I don't concentrate on something like the breathe or an object (saguna meditation), I just...be, and then pop into the void.

In day to day life, I have a constant stream of music playing. I can change the track and the volume but for many many years I could not pause it. Only recently have I been able to pause it, and then it carries on playing at some point later on.

Many sages and gurus told me the music was a gift, but i recently had insight that it was monkey mind manifesting as music to trick me.

[Jkris]

@thesmileyone is popping to void and enlightenment are synonymous? Or popping to void is just awakening? And the ego must vanish for enlightenment? ?

[thesmileyone]

It's just a jhana, there's more levels, sometimes I go up the jhanas sometimes not. It's a lovely place to be though and lately the bliss has been coming in more

I have had more advanced jhanas occur and then samadhi's where time vanishes completely and I come out and hours have passed in what seemed like minutes. Still not enlightenment.

[Adam M]

When u catch yourself lost in the content of a thought...just ask yourself "to whom is this thought occuring?"

 

Keep doing that over and over again...the point is to keep your attention focused on the sense of "I"

[Joseph Maynor]