is there even a point to do 60 minute self inquiry sits if 99.9% is monkey mind?

[moon777light]

I set up myself for a goal of 60 minute self inquiry sits daily for 3 months to see progress. So far its very hard. As the title states, practically all of it is monkey mind. I keep telling myself to focus on awareness itself and to not give thoughts/sounds/sensations any thought other than the natural rise and pass of them. But they dominant my mind and so easily i start getting caught up in their stories. Not once did i feel the full calmness of awareness during the 60 minute sit. 

I do concentration practices twice a day, and im still at the 2 minute mark max because my mind always jumps to other thoughts and faces even in those 2 minutes. 

I always hear people on here warning about not being that one person that spent a few decades meditating without getting any real progress.  And im scared ill be like that. What do we even focus on again? In theory awareness, but i cant find it. IM looking, and then all these other sense get in the way. I did a rupert spira meditation for self inquiry and it was nice but i dont want to repeat the same guided meditation over and over again, my mind gets used it and it wont work anymore.

[FoxFoxFox]

@moon777light You've already realized that awareness cannot be found as an object. That's more than most people realize in a life time, so congratz!

A quiet mind is not the objective of self-inquiry. A quiet mind is really a side-effect of Self-realization. The point of the practice is to reveal the nature of the "I" as illusion, and subsequent dis-identification with that.

[Shin]

Who knows it's monkey mind ?

Focus on that.

[moon777light]

@FoxFoxFox i want to feel good about that, but i can't.

4 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

The point of the practice is to reveal the nature of the "I" as illusion, and subsequent dis-identification with that.

so this dis-identification just happens over time automatically?

@Shin i never thought about it like that

[FoxFoxFox]

@moon777light

The point is to merge with awareness, that is to totally stop believing in the stories the mind comes up with. You have to become one with awareness, and that happens when the mind does not produce even the notion of there being someone who is merging. 

The length of the practice is less important than the intensity of desire for liberation. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by FoxFoxFox

[Shin]

5 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@moon777light

The point is to merge with awareness, that is to totally stop believing in the stories the mind comes up with. You have to become one with awareness, and that happens when the mind does not produce even the notion of there being someone who is merging. 

The length of the practice is less important than the intensity of desire for liberation. 

I would add to that, that it's not something amazing or fantastic.

Don't expect something like that.

It's way more mundane than you think, in fact it's so normal that it is continuously overlooked.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Shin

[Preetom]

23 minutes ago, Shin said:

I would add to that, that it's not something amazing or fantastic.

Don't expect something like that.

It's way more mundane than you think, in fact it's so normal that it is continuously overlooked.

@moon777lighttl

I'd second that.

Expect the next 3 months to be grueling work.

I heard David godman saying that the purpose of self inquiry is not peace. Its purpose is to destroy the subject.

As you are new to this, search for the perceiver. It doesnt matter what thought or emotion arise. Phenomena has absolutely no significance in self inquiry. The vision of an angel is as insignificant as a scratch on the back in self inquiry. Try over and over no matter how many times you fail or wanna pull your hair off.

Let your 1st breakthrough come through a spontaneous collapse of that effort. Trust me it'll happen within few weeks if you are vigilant.

And remember what Leo assured! 

"You dont have to figure this stuff yourself. Thats the beauty of it"

Dont be clever or try to outsmart yourself with sneaky arguments. Just sincerely search for the perceiver, that which you call 'I' with honest and strong will.

Good luck  

[ajasatya]

@moon777light go to a retreat and discomfort will be your friend.

[moon777light]

35 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

that happens when the mind does not produce even the notion of there being someone who is merging.

so basically being still in my mind?

36 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

that is to totally stop believing in the stories the mind comes up with.

i guess this one takes the most practice, i keep listening to what the thoughts say instead of just letting them flow

thank you

32 minutes ago, Shin said:

It's way more mundane than you think, in fact it's so normal that it is continuously overlooked.

yea, my guilty pleasure is thinking how amazing and peaceful it'll be. With all the talk of oohh its so beautiful your infinity blah blah you kinda expect its gonna be big if its infinity lol. 

[molosku]

Patience, perceverance, determination. 

Dont look for calmness, clarity, peace or even happiness. Trust in God. Dont look for awareness or consciousness either, look for that wich is continous and unchanging and stay with that.

If you feel super confused or catch yourself monkey minding, return to your amness, the most obvious experience of being yourself for a while, just for like 10-30 seconds. Dont over complicate it. Then restart your inquiry. 

I find it helpful to "clear the table" during self inquiry so I can have many new fresh starts for contemplation/concentration. 

[FoxFoxFox]

@moon777light No, being still despite of the mind. It really doesn't matter what the mind does so long as you are watching it and are not identifying with it.  The watcher itself has to be dis-identified with at some point (it will disappear along with the sense of person-hood).

[Aaron p]

1 hour ago, moon777light said:

I always hear people on here warning about not being that one person that spent a few decades meditating without getting any real progress.  And im scared ill be like that.

@moon777light ok this is a good thing to consider...because it can happen. And that would be shit. I see my meditation practise like gym workouts, your form needs to be on point all the time or else you won't target the correct muscles and won't make any notifiable progress. In self enquiry it's about finding what it is that you mean when you say the word "me." Allow your imagination and direct experience to mix during this. One important rule, assume there is a "you" that is here...hold to that authentic feeling that there is a "you" and start to dig. Right now in the present moment would you still be here if you lost your memory? What about if your personality changed would you still be there? What doesn't come and go? Because logically that is you. What cannot leave? Your heart can be replaced, that's not you, your lungs can be replaced that's not you...where is this "you" exactly? 

 

Also, don't see self enquiry as something where you need to quiet your mind...not at all. If your mind is being busy, ask...who is the one who is having these thoughts? Is it a person? Ok, which aspect of the person is not removable? Where is the solid ground that cannot move? And don't leave it at so etching general like "my life" what *exactly* are you. Kryia yoga will get you into shape to. And phychdelic retreats every so often.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Aaron p

[Space]

@moon777light It's interesting, I am hopeless when it comes to concentration practises, I can't concentrate on my breath to save my life. But when it comes to self-inquiry i'm just naturally able to get hyper focused. I find occasionally repeating your focus question helps enormously. In your mind, or verbally. Don't just ask Who or What Am I? once at the beginning and then thats it. But don't repeat the question every second, obviously. The more concentrated you get the less you need to verbalise the process. With regards to focusing on awareness, you are correct in saying that there is nothing to concentrate on. By consciously being aware, you are simultaneously being aware of being aware. You be aware of being aware by being aware - but consciously! Recognise that you are conscious and aware, and stay there wondering who or what is aware. Atleast that's my take on it, might be complete nonsense lol. If you're interested in reading more about the meditation of awareness watching awareness, check out this helpful article: https://albigen.com/uarelove/most_rapid/chapter07.htm 

[cetus]

@moon777light "Drop all desires even the desire to attain enlightenment during meditation"

This book would be of great help to you. Zen Mind Beginners Mind http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/zenmind.pdf

[TheAvatarState]

@moon777light be the observer and focus on your monkey mind. Where are these thoughts coming from? Why? Try to reach a state of awareness as a "disembodied spirit" looking at your monkey mind as if separate from it. Do that for the remainder of your 3 months. Really try to map out conceptually AND intuitively (feeling) this "monkey mind." You will grow immensely. 

This isn't where it stops though. After your 3 months, your goal is to merge your true nature (pure awareness) with this monkey mind, so that they become one. That is the ultimate goal, to converge these 2 realities into one seamless experience. Leo talks about this extensively in his latest "how to do self inquiry" video. Please do not be discouraged. Stay vigilant. I also find that upping the concentration to 3+ minutes is way more beneficial that increasing meditation time. 1 hour is plenty for anything you'll be doing over the next few years. Godspeed 

[Enlightenment]

@moon777light Drop self-inquiry practice and start practicing focusing on the breath sensations meditation for at least 45 minutes in one sit. If you will put effort into it, you should see a great improvement in your ability to concentrate in the next 3 months.

[nistake]

Do you practise Kriya? If not, I suggest you should start. A proper Kriya routine stills your mind real good and afterwards you'll be so focused that self-inquiry becomes a lot easier and more 'fluid'.

[Esoteric]

I agree to stop doing the practice and try something else. Find something that clicks for you. Maybe it will be amazing for you later down the path. Just because a technique gets a lot of praise doesn't mean it is right for you right now or even ever if it doesn't suit your temperament and person. Find out what really works for you geniuenely, not what should work for you.

[Joseph Maynor]

Have you found Awareness yet?  

Edited March 31, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, moon777light said:

What do we even focus on again?

IMO, that is the simple problem. You are trying to focus when (in terms of thoughts) you need to be letting go. 

Sounds to me like “I keep getting pulled into thought stories because I don’t know what else I’m supposed to be focusing on”. 

Yes?