Total Liberation vs No-Mind vs Samadhi?

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura would you say from your personal experience that total liberation/God consciousness means No-Mind and also samadhi? Or is No-Mind a separate “accomplshment”/endeavor rather than total God consciousness and liberation?

How does God consciousness/liberation equate or compare to deep samadhi states like nirvikalpa samadhi, jeeva samadhi, and sahaja samadhi? 

P.S. I’m incredibly happy for you seeing yesterday’s video. I had my first psychedelic trip yesterday after seeing yesterday’s video and I got a taste of God for the first time of my entire life. Thank you for everything. Thank you for showing me this was possible. Will post a trip report soon. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by kieranperez

[Leo Gura]

It's complicated.

They are all distinct achievements.

Sahaja samadhi would be abiding God-consciousness as I understand. Other lesser samadhis are temporary. They are not abiding. So in that sense they are like a psychedelic peak. Psychedelic puts you into samadhi automatically. Then from that state you can have profound insights and realizations.

Liberation to me means totally overcoming the self. Breaking free of all identification and all attachment to the material world, such that you are not driven by cravings or suffering. At this point you would be close to just leaving your body because you are so detached from life. You are basically giving up human life to be formless because you've had enough of form. You are no longer interested in exploring form. You just desire to be the Godhead. Liberation should bring you very close to something like that.

No-mind is yet a distinct achievement. Although of course there tends to be overlap between all these. They are all pointing in the same general direction.

I would not worry about these nuances for now. Just focus on having a few solid awakening experiences. You'll figure out the rest afterwards. Don't get ahead of your skiis.

[Arhattobe]

There are probably uncountable meditative samadhi states.

A very number of awakened states (stable samadhi states) as well. With varying depths and flavors.

Neither stable sober samadhis, nor meditative samadhis are liberation. The meditative ones are temporary & 99 percent of the stable ones are still defiled, distorted and limited due to subconsious defilements.

Full enlightenment only comes with the total eradication of the subconsious walls, limitations, defilements, and deep karmic impressions that go way deeper than you would think.

[Tony 845]

@Arhattobe nicely said 

[Salvijus]

I would categorize into 3 types of games.

One is self realization.

Second is liberation and being free from life and death, dissolving karma, Mukti. Self realization doesn't mean you're free from the cycles yet.

Third is mysticism. Where you go into metaphysical spirituality, where you want to know every answer about life, how it works, where it comes from and whatnot.

You can play one game and missout completly on the other. Like you can materialize things out of a thin air, be with psychic abilities and be complete ignorant of your true nature(I heard Papaji had students like that). Or you can be self aware but have no understanding of machanics of life. Or be self aware but still not free from karma. 

This is my current understanding. It's just a perspective.

Edit: some additional thoughts on the matter 

I also think that's the reason why some Zen Bhuddhist who spent 40years working in his Zen garden dosn't have the same states of consciousness and metaphysical understanding as 5meo-dmt can give you. Because they don't play this 3rd game. They only care about 2nd game, liberation. In Bhuddhism they would dissmiss all samadhis basicly. 

This reminds me. Like sadhguru says. Some yogis who play with certain things are more entangled with life then someone who just eats, sleeps and reproduces. Even tho the yogi has some insane levels of consciousness that a common person has no idea of.

I even think that dissolving karma has nothing to do with raising consciousness (maybe, idk.) Like those Mt. Kailash marathon runners. They don't do any meditation. They just run. Karma Yoga u know. Yoga of action. They just run and that's all. After 3 years when they sit they sit like the breeze unmoving. They dissolved their karma simply by running and no meditation at all. They also have no more suffering i think. No more cravings also. 

Does that mean they have 5meo dmt mystical metaphysical understanding of reality? Probably no. They're playing totally different game altogether.

 

What do you guys think of this?  @Leo Gura  @Arhattobe

Edited March 31, 2019 by Salvijus

[FoxFoxFox]

@Leo Gura

Quote

Liberation to me means totally overcoming the self. Breaking free of all identification and all attachment to the material world, such that you are not driven by cravings or suffering. At this point you would be close to just leaving your body because you are so detached from life. You are basically giving up human life to be formless because you've had enough of form. You are no longer interested in exploring form. You just desire to be the Godhead. Liberation should bring you very close to something like that.

All this is already your real condition. You already are not bound by the body's cravings and suffering. The mind is the one who is bound and suffers, but if you inquire into the nature of the mind it will just vanish. At that very moment of complete withdrawal of the mind, who is suffering? What is suffering, even?

There is an important distinction however. You should not expect the body to not get hungry or feel pain, for example. The sensations are there, the perceptions are there, it's the identification with them that goes away. The notions are what goes away. I say this, because if you make the absence of the feeling of hunger a goal, well all you have to do for that is to eat. It does not require enlightenment. But the hunger returns. If however, you have completely given up all notions about life, all your mental understandings of it, then the only thing that remains is the Self-God who operates everywhere. 

I know you begin your writing by mentioning identification, but the picture you paint is exactly what you mistakingly wish to identify with instead. It means that somewhere in your mind, you have a vision of how the experience of enlightenment should look like. Well that vision is exactly what stops realization from taking place. That vision too must be surrendered in the truest sense. 

The experience of the Self, if we choose to call it an experience, is wholly mysterious and unknowable. Trying to infer the inner experience of a Sage is just more projection.

Of course, you excuse me if I misunderstand the situation. I just think this is important to prevent people from chasing some dream.

In my opinion, the easiest and fastest way to do this is to increase the intensities of the energy within you to the point that they can overwhelm you. At that point, you cannot help but to surrender. 

[tedens]

@FoxFoxFox you touched the essence of the problem of teaching.

3 hours ago, FoxFoxFox said:

In my opinion, the easiest and fastest way to do this is to increase the intensities of the energy within you to the point that they can overwhelm you. At that point, you cannot help but to surrender. 

..and this is a nice clue.

[Nahm]

12 hours ago, kieranperez said:

@Leo Gura would you say from your personal experience that total liberation/God consciousness means No-Mind and also samadhi? Or is No-Mind a separate “accomplshment”/endeavor rather than total God consciousness and liberation? Give this thought up.

How does God consciousness/liberation equate or compare to deep samadhi states like nirvikalpa samadhi, jeeva samadhi, and sahaja samadhi? Give this thought up.  

P.S. I’m incredibly happy for you seeing yesterday’s video. I had my first psychedelic trip yesterday after seeing yesterday’s video and I got a taste of God for the first time of my entire life. Give this thought up. 

Things are actually thoughts of “things”. Give up every thing, and Nothing remains. (Give this thought up too)

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's complicated.

They are all distinct achievements.

Sahaja samadhi would be abiding God-consciousness as I understand. Other lesser samadhis are temporary. They are not abiding. So in that sense they are like a psychedelic peak. Psychedelic puts you into samadhi automatically. Then from that state you can have profound insights and realizations.

Liberation to me means totally overcoming the self. Breaking free of all identification and all attachment to the material world, such that you are not driven by cravings or suffering. At this point you would be close to just leaving your body because you are so detached from life. You are basically giving up human life to be formless because you've had enough of form. You are no longer interested in exploring form. You just desire to be the Godhead. Liberation should bring you very close to something like that.

3

Well, that's a story, and distinction between formlessness and form, godhead and world, can also go afaik, in fact that is something that is usually referred to as some sort of final 'state'.

No seeking, because it's all the same.