Most deeply enlightened teachers

[DrewNows]

Thank you ? for sharing @Joseph Maynor

did you have a tough upbringing? Was all of the psychs for growth purposes, the experience, or an escape from reality as you knew it? 

 

[DrewNows]

@Jkriswith psychs, the part of the brain that gives you your sense of self gets cut off (correct me if I’m wrong) and therefore the mind literally can feel the sense of death, I can testify to this and my mind fought for dear life as I went deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole 

[DrewNows]

@Joseph Maynorhmm okay, how long did you wait between trips? 

I had my first awakening about 6 months after my trip and it was during my reading of the power of now which I randomly picked up at the book store and started reading almost out of mockery as I had no interest/knowledge of spirituality,and in a state of severe depression. So tired of dragging on my life story. I was ready to give up and surrender 

[en-el hak]

J. Krishnamurti, Rupert Spira, Sadhguru, Shunyamurti, Peter Ralston...

But I must say that, like @Leo Gura told (in his "Leaving on 30-Day Solo Retreat" video), spiritual teachings from these great names are not enough by themselves. One needs to integrate these teachings with intellectual frameworks, i.e. science, philosophy, politics.

For example, Bernardo Kastrup is enlightened AF. But also, without the discipline of those teachings, scientists, philosophers, etc. can fall into ego trap.

[DrewNows]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Well LSD and Mushroom act on the same tolerance receptors, so if you do one of those do not do either again for like at least 2 weeks.  I would wait a month in between trips at least to not waste your money.

Thank you. Yeah I have some emotional issues or trauma which are still triggering the responses in certain situations (sometimes perpetuating).

Do you know of an online source for in the US? (Pm me If that’s cool) 

 

 

[Consilience]

36 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't take psychedelics to be anything literal.  I think that's a trap.  You learn from the experiences but then you come back into regular life where you do have an Ego.  People who take psychedelics literally I think are misled.  It's a temporary brain-state like a dream that you're conscious in.  I think it's important to know when to stop using psychedelics on the Path too otherwise you can become pretty deluded.

Do you take your sober state as literal? 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Do you take your sober state as literal? 

I don't really care about metaphysics.  In Zen, you get popped out of thinking about reality or metaphysics.  I just don't really pay the issue any mind, if that makes sense.  It's not an issue that I cling to as relevant 99% of the time.  I'm not clinging to knowing reality in some kind of metaphysical way anymore.  It's like I've outgrown that, like outgrowing a hobby or interest that you previously had when you were a kid.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Consilience]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't really care about metaphysics.  In Zen, you get popped out of thinking about reality or metaphysics.  I just don't really pay the issue any mind, if that makes sense.  It's not an issue that I cling to as relevant 99% of the time.  I'm not clinging to knowing reality in some kind of metaphysical way anymore.  It's like I've outgrowth that, like outgrowing a hobby or interest that you previously had when you were a kid.

That’s not really what I meant. You said the problem is people taking psychedelics literally. Im asking, if you dont take psychedelics literally, do you take sobriety literally? If you do, or if there is some distinction you’re making between psychedelic state of consciousness and sober states of consciousnes, why are you doing that?

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, Consilience said:

That’s not really what I meant. You said the problem is people taking psychedelics literally. Im asking, if you dont take psychedelics literally, do you take sobriety literally? If you do, or if there is some distinction you’re making between psychedelic state of consciousness and sober states of consciousnes, why are you doing that?

I don't care about the issue at all.  I don't try to define things like that or try to know things like that anymore.  How can I clarify this further?  I know this is a mindf*ck of a different way of being for people who are trained to want to know things.  The issue died on the vine for me.  It died when I transcended the Mind.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Jkris]

@Joseph Maynor ???

[okulele]

https://de.spiritualwiki.org/Hawkins/ListTrueTeachers

This is interesting to check out in relation to most deeply enlightened teachers. It is a list calibrated by David R. Hawkins using the muscle testing.

I am not claiming it's totally true, but it might be worth checking out.

 

Quote

 

905-990|980 Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ

960 HuangPo Xiyun

930 John the Baptist

910 Moses

850 Abraham

795 Bodhidharma

760 Mahatma Gandhi  

745 Paul the Apostle

740 Adi Shankaracharya

740 Dōgen Zenji

730 Plotinus

720 Moshe ben Shem-Tov

720 Ramana Maharshi

720 Nisargadatta Maharaj

715 Patanjali

715 Teresa of Avilá

710 Mother Teresa

705 Meister Eckhart

700 Rembrandt van Rijn (work)

740/700 until age 38
- Fallen -Prophet Muhammad

760 until ~2004/2005
- Fallen -Ramesh Balsekar

...

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

Yes I have.

Sounds like a good attitude to psychedelics.

Except I don't think you can learn anything from them, it's all delusion.

I believed in all kind of nonsense during my trip, and also during high on weed.

I actually believed in the nonsense during the trip. I'm glad I came back to my senses after it, instead of believing in the delusion while being sober too, which apparently many people do.

Thanks man, I appreciate your insights.  Movies and art are delusion too, yet somehow we can learn a lot from these things.  I remember when I was studying at UCLA, I was compelled to watch all the classic films and I was kinda neurotic about this -- and this experience had a kind of profound impact on the rest of my life, even though on some level all films are rubbish.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Rilles]

I think having a few psychedelic experiences is good to break open the mind and ego which in turn can open someone up to ”real” spirituality. 

[FoxFoxFox]

@Mikael89 There is one thing you can learn from psychedelics and that is how your essential nature is unaffected even when the mind is totally bonkers. 

[mandyjw]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The word intelligence is confusing to people. Most people think of intelligence as IQ or human mind stuff. That is not the Absolute Intelligence I talk about.

No, I would not equate intelligence with awakening. The wiser you are, the more likely you are to see the need to awaken. Let's put it that way.

God's Intelligence is infinite, but to you this falls on deaf ears. You must awaken to this fact.

This is where 5-MeO-DMT (or other psychedelics) can be so useful. They will help you cultivate a desire for God, Love, Truth, and Consciousness -- which will then make you really serious about this work. And then you will get massive gainz!

I mean the mind's capacity to think and hold ideas. I've noticed that many intelligent people are very identified with their mind and so they are prone to mind caused suffering so out of necessity they seek this work. But they seek it through their intelligence, which causes lots of misconceptions. I do believe that a lot of people have stumbled across it accidentally and they don't know what they know and so they can't explain it to other people. If you find or seek one out it can be very enlightening. 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Mikael89 There is one thing you can learn from psychedelics and that is how your essential nature is unaffected even when the mind is totally bonkers. 

This is the kind of deep insight that most people will not fully appreciate although it's placed right here in front of you.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[AlwaysBeNice]

These teachers are supposed to point out the illusion of separation, so if they are really deeply enlightened, there would be no sense of being more enlightened or special/better, than a random kiddo, fat chick, bum, etc.

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, David Hammond said:

Not IQ. Intelligence itself informs anyone who is awake. That can't be cultivated from anywhere else. There are plenty of simple minded folk who were awake. It's about wisdom.

Can intelligence be seen as a hindrance? 

[mandyjw]

@David Hammond I agree. There are people who have been told that they are intelligent all their life or who have thought of their intelligence as the only positive thing about them so they develop a big sense of self around it. Then when their thoughts make them suffer it's a huge hurdle for them to let go of thought because their self is so wrapped up in being a person who is really good at thinking. It's takes a massive wave of suffering to break them. That was probably the case with Eckhart Tolle and I know it's the case with a lot of people I know personally 

[Tony 845]

@Mikael89 I was joking, 5MEO has 1 confirmed case of enlightenment, I could care less about them in all honestly.