The Way Leo Often Talks About God/Absolute

[Joseph Maynor]

10 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor Understandable. Nobody really feels inclined to call emptiness or groundlessness a state. As for me, rather than saying Infinity is a state, I say it’s State itself (because that includes all states within it). There’s a nice Zen riddle ? “The only “state” that is no particular state is State itself” or “The only “form” that has no particular form is Form itself”

See, I don't like this phrase "includes everything within it".  That's a kind of idealism, a kind of metaphysical thing to say -- it's a belief.  Being just is.  Any though is spoken by a mouth and at best can be a kind of talk about being.  There's this assumption that the Mind can know these very fundamental, essential truths about being, which is like trying to capture air in a net.  It's just not necessary at the end of the day.  I could see if it were pragmatically useful to cling to such beliefs, but it's not.  It's actually a way for the Mind to cling to beliefs that block transcendence of the Mind.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Ethankahn]

@Joseph Maynor Correct. Being just is. Because it has no beginning. If you look closely, our views can be unified. That’s what I’m pointing at

Edited March 30, 2019 by Ethankahn

[Mu_]

6 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor Correct. Being just is. Because it has no beginning. If you look closely, our views can be unified. That’s what I’m pointing at

Well look what the cat dragged in.

[Ethankahn]

Just now, Mu_ said:

Well look what the cat dragged in.

?

[Joseph Maynor]

11 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor Correct. Being just is. Because it has no beginning. If you look closely, our views can be unified. That’s what I’m pointing at

What do you mean "being has no beginning"?  See, that's more metaphysics.  Mouths and Minds love to talk about being as if it's a coffee table or something.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Ethankahn]

@Joseph Maynor What’s wrong with metaphysics? I accept all perspectives. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor What’s wrong with metaphysics? I accept all perspectives. 

Clinging to metaphysics makes it almost impossible to transcend the Mind.  It's like living in a liquor store while trying to quit drinking.

[Ethankahn]

@Joseph Maynor Anything is possible. Are you so sure you’ve tried hard enough to reconcile these varying perspectives?

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor Anything is possible. Are you so sure you’ve tried hard enough to reconcile these varying perspectives?

I don't think reconciling perspectives has anything to do with locating being and transcending the Ego-Mind.  That's that Ken Wilber metaphysics -- this idea that everything needs to be "integrated".  That's a noble project, but it doesn't have anything to do with Enlightenment work in my view.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Ethankahn]

@Joseph Maynor I didn’t say it needs to be integrated. I said they can be integrated as a response to your statement that such a thing is impossible. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Ethankahn

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor I didn’t say it needs to be integrated. I said they can be integrated as a response to your statement that such a thing is impossible. 

I didn't say it's impossible, it's just irrelevant to Enlightenment work.  The same way that mathematics is irrelevant to Enlightenment work.

[Ethankahn]

@Joseph Maynor You must realize that what people aim for as Enlightenment can be different types of states. I’ve found that mathematics and logic can be relevant to Enlightenment but they’re not everything. Just like your transcendence of the Mind isn’t everything. It’s one method and one form of Enlightenment 

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor You must realize that what people aim for as Enlightenment can be different types of states. I’ve found that mathematics and logic can be relevant to Enlightenment but they’re not everything. Just like your transcendence of the Mind isn’t everything. It’s one method and one form of Enlightenment 

Yeah, I admit I find the Zen approach very complete.  And I didn't even know about Zen until relatively recently, but my views were already very much in line with Zen when I started learning about it.  It was like this weird thing where I realized, "oh sh*t, there's a teaching that actually resonates with how I think about Enlightenment right there under my nose."  And this is weird because for most of my life any philosophy I've encountered has been wrong in some sense.  But Zen was right in line with my approach to Enlightenment -- I don't wanna use the word "view" of Enlightenment.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Ethankahn]

@Joseph Maynor Good! No problem then. So long as the acceptance is there. I’m not going to invalidate your way. Enjoy your Enlightenment ? or... “enjoy” Lol 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Ethankahn

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor Good! No problem then. So long as the acceptance is there. Enjoy your Enlightenment ? or... “enjoy” Lol 

Good chatting with you.  I like your respectful and thoughtful vibe.  It inspires me to be more that way myself instead of a know-it-all ass, which I can be sometimes haha.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Ethankahn]

@Joseph Maynor Great chatting with you as well! I always enjoy others’ perspectives so no worries, I’ll accept you no matter what 

[Joseph Maynor]

7 minutes ago, Ethankahn said:

@Joseph Maynor Great chatting with you as well! I always enjoy others’ perspectives so no worries, I’ll accept you no matter what 

Yeah.  Me too.  Belief actually means very little to me.  Friendship and kindness means more to me now than belief.  And of course, all relationships require tolerance, which I'm learning about as I enter more and more relationships with the aim to make them healthy and last.  What you feed a tree is more important than what you say to it with your mouth.  And I make sure my trees have the vitamins and the sunshine they need to love me back and flourish.  Anyway, I'm getting a little mystical here, sorry.  I have a few trees in my house that are like my pets.  They don't have a mouth, so they don't ask me any questions, but they still tell me what they need somehow.  Usually it's more sunshine, vitamins, or water.  Sometimes they tell me they need to be rotated so the sunlight hits them evenly all around.  Sometimes they tell me that they need their dead leaves removed.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Ethankahn]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Yeah.  Me too.  Belief actually means very little to me.  Friendship and kindness means more to me now than belief.  And of course, all relationships require tolerance, which I'm learning about as I enter more and more relationships with the aim to make them healthy and last.  What you feed a tree is more important than what you say to it with your mouth. And I make sure my trees have the vitamins and the sunshine they need to love me back and flourish.  Anyway, I'm getting a little mystical here, sorry.  I have a few trees in my house that are like my pets.

?I’m always down for some mystical analogies

[Leo Gura]

@Joseph Maynor The paradox is fully there. Then again, paradox does not really exist. Paradox only exists within the realm of mind, when mind tries to articulate infinity. If you just sit and look at reality as it is without thought, there is no paradox.

So the paradox is that there is no paradox, until you start to think about it

"=" has nothing to do with math. It's a way of saying two things are one.

For example, I could say: you = me. That's not math. It's a nondual truth.

I could say:

• I = God
• God = Love
• God = Intelligence
• God = Nothingness
• God = Infinity
• Ego = devil
• Fear = illusion
• Nonduality = Oneness
• Infinity = Zero
• Truth = Love
• Form = Formlessness
• God = Creation
• Etc.

And these are all highly worthwhile realizations to have. You are not going to realize all these identities in one shot. This is why having multiple awakenings is so important.

The above is actually a very elegant way of communicating the highest truths. In fact, I'll be doing a whole episode about these "equations".

My formulations are just one way of expressing/communicating Truth. There are many other ways. Each way will be partial and emphasize different aspects of Truth/God. If you want the full Truth, then you must go beyond the words.

The point here is: never take my words too literally. Always leave some leeway. Read between the lines. Grok the intention behind the communication.

[Ethankahn]

What’s up Leo. Hopefully my PMs haven’t annoyed you Lol

Edited March 30, 2019 by Ethankahn