Will Science ever prove Non-Duality?

[SQAAD]

Science is the new religion of the modern world. When i talk about non-duality to my friends they get suspicious and almost everyone comes w/ this silly objection : "If non-duality was true science would know about it by now."

Well personally i don't buy that BUT still my knowledge of how science works and the limits of science is very narrow so i can't provide a good counter-arguement most of the time.

Will science ever prove non-duality? And why hasn't it been "proven" so far?  I mean scientist still do their science using first person experience.  

Edited March 29, 2019 by SQAAD

[Highest]

I highly doubt it, but I hope so sometime somehow. That would change the world to some degree at least.

[ajasatya]

@SQAAD non-duality is not something to be found by experiments that involve instrumental measurements and data modeling. those are the domain of science, but non-duality is about WHO YOU ARE.

you can't measure WHO YOU ARE. it can be done by direct experience, only. not by intermediary means like a microscope or a telescope. zooming in is offtrack. zooming out is offtrack. using numbers is offtrack. using language is offtrack.

deep levels of spiritual awakening is something else. you can't convince "your friends". it's not a matter of believing. it's a matter of becoming aware of WHAT reads these words right now.

it cannot be done if you are not serious enough about it. if you don't work hard, you'll just scratch the surface. if you don't allow yourself to go through intense experiences like several retreats and such, you'll stay on the level of assumptions and beliefs, not really knowing what this is about. you will continue thinking that it's important that your friends know about it and agree with you, but that's soooo offtrack in many many levels!

Edited March 29, 2019 by ajasatya

[Highest]

3 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

 

deep levels of spiritual awakening is something else. you can't convince "your friends". it's not a matter of believing. it's a matter of becoming aware of WHAT reads these words right now.

??

I gave up on my atheist friend long time ago. I told him you have to become aware of God which you are throug Self-inqury and that was the last from me. I know he will never practice it but we agreed to disagree and stop talking about my non-duality and him stopping talking about his materialism nonsense.

I am still friend with him, actually I have known him for 8 years and I consider him my best friend.

[fridjonk]

It kind of actually happened but it's a hidden part of science. I'd highly recommend you read "After we die, what then ?"  by George W. Meek.  

[ajasatya]

8 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

It kind of actually happened but it's a hidden part of science. I'd highly recommend you read "After we die, what then ?"  by George W. Meek.  

there is no such thing as "hidden science". your scientific work can either be or not be published. it only depends on whether the experiments are reproducible or not. the results of the experiments must also be "open", in the sense that it must not depend on particular states of consciousness, so that everyone will see the same results after the experiments are finished.

Edited March 29, 2019 by ajasatya

[Dumb Enlightened]

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

Science is the new religion of the modern world. When i talk about non-duality to my friends they get suspicious and almost everyone comes w/ this silly objection : "If non-duality was true science would know about it by now."

Well personally i don't buy that BUT still my knowledge of how science works and the limits of science is very narrow so i can't provide a good counter-arguement most of the time.

Will science ever prove non-duality? And why hasn't it been "proven" so far?  I mean scientist still do their science using first person experience.  

Will science ever prove objective reality ? Science is based in this assumption, so it would be cool if it was proven lol

I really like Science, but it has limitations

Edited March 29, 2019 by Dumb Enlightened

[Highest]

6 minutes ago, Dumb Enlightened said:

Will science ever prove objective reality ? 

The problem is that most scientists are not conscious that the outside reality isn't what it appears to be aka matter. Albert Einstein understood that when he discovered that matter in fact is energy.

But it goes deeper than that, the outside world and matter is actually God. And God can only be made aware of or conscious of from personal direct experience. 

[SQAAD]

38 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

 

 

1 hour ago, ajasatya said:

 

you can't measure WHO YOU ARE. it can be done by direct experience, only. not by intermediary means like a microscope or a telescope. zooming in is offtrack. zooming out is offtrack. using numbers is offtrack. using language is offtrack.

 

@ajasatya  Great point.

Edited March 29, 2019 by SQAAD

[thesmileyone]

the headless way uses science to prove nonduality exists.

[Forestluv]

@SQAAD Science is within nonduality.  Science is nonduality (as is everything). How can something prove itself? There is nothing to prove. It's like asking "Can science prove science exists?". It doesn't make sense.

[Leo Gura]

@SQAAD Science proved it 100 years ago with the radical epistemic discoveries of quantum mechanics. It just hasn't premeated mainstream culture.

The problem is that you cannot prove something to a closedminded person no matter how much proof you have. If an ego-mind wishes to believe in materialism, no amount of proof will convince it otherwise.

The way this problem is resolved is that culture must evolve. There must be a culture war to the point where materialism is so discredited that you would look like a fool to ever speak of it publicly. In the same way that you would look like a fool to say publicly that the Earth is 5000 years old. Serious people will laugh at you. So it must become with materialism.

It will take hundreds of years for that to happen.

The whole point is that the ego-mind does not allow its metaphysics to be open to being disproven. It is taken as fact/reality and you cannot change facts (or so the ego-mind believes). Of course there was nothing factual about materialist metaphysics to begin with. But this is denied by the materialist.

It's a catch-22 situation. Individuals cannot realize it because culture is backwards. And culture cannot change because individuals are backwards. So it takes a long time for progress to occur. Generations must pass. The old dogmatic folks must natrually die off.

This is one reason why death is good. If humans lived forever they would become totally rigid and stuck in their minds. Culture could not evolve. Technology could not happen as rapidly.

[FoxFoxFox]

@Leo Gura Amen.

[Enlightenment]

Quote

Tremendous tension is building in the world of neuroscience over the relationship between mind and brain -- just what is the true nature of consciousness? A building consilience from the fields of psychology, physics and neuroscience supports the primacy of consciousness in the universe, or a top-down organizing principle at the heart of all reality. One of the strongest new elements of this bridge comes from the physics perspective of Bernardo Kastrup in support of the reality of ontological or metaphysical idealism. His revolutionary and insightful book, The Idea of the World, connects the dots brilliantly through a series of masterfully-woven articles, making an elegant case for the advantages of idealism over physicalism, especially in the face of contextuality in quantum physics, the ‘hard problem’ of consciousness, and the subject combination problem in philosophy of mind. The result is a must-read book for anyone seriously interested in the modern neuroscience of consciousness, and its broad implications for humanity. Bravo, Bernardo!

https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2019/03/the-dawn-post-materialist-academic.html

[InfinitePotential]

Truth is larger than provability, but that everything is one / connected is reasonably proven.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

For QM, see my video: Quantum Mechanics Debunks Materialism - Part 2

[Salvijus]

E=mc^2 

Everything is one energy moving from one form to another. That's pretty much the proof of nonduality.

They teach this stuff in 5th grade now i think

[fridjonk]

@ajasatya  I did not mean literally hidden. And also you're wrong, you see how scientists can't agree on quantum mechanics and that it has disproved materialism, yet 60% of scientists still refuse to accept it.  Evidence will not sway the strong orange ego. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by fridjonk

[ajasatya]

29 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@ajasatya  I did not mean literally hidden. And also you're wrong, you see how scientists can't agree on quantum mechanics yet it has disproved materialism, yet 60% of scientists still refuse it. 

they may not agree on certain models of quantum mechanics and this is how science evolves. disagreement promotes improvements because everyone becomes more rigorous and methodical.

you can't deny the experiments, though. if you deny the results of such a simple experiment as the double slit experiment, you can't even call yourself a scientist. we scientists do agree that we do not understand the mechanics of sub-nano realms. and, to make things worse, measuring becomes a real problem from there.

about "materialism", it depends on what you mean by that word. i consider myself a materialist... it's just that what we know as "matter" is not made of solid little pieces as we thought before. i also consider myself a spiritualist... it's just that Spirit can feel solid and look static. in other words, as far as my insights have shown me, matter = spirit.

Edited March 31, 2019 by ajasatya

[fridjonk]

@ajasatya  How do you define "materialism" ?