Self-inquiry explained.

[Hima Izumi]

6 minutes ago, Preetom said:

I'd disagree with that. While it's true we can never guess the truth but I doubt they were doing self-inquiry from the start. They probably were doing a whole batch of spiritual practices and contemplations for decades before they finally stabilized in 'real' self-inquiry.

Adyashanti: I don't know a great deal about the specifics of his personal path but he meditated like an Olympian 4-5 hours days in his late teens and 20s. But they were mostly a batch of concentration/vipasana meditations. In his final few years, self-inquiry really got hold of him tightly and he awakened permanently that time (he had many other glimpses before but they didn't stick)

Rupert: He didn't do self-inquiry from the start. From his late teens to his 40s that's like 25 years- he was reading vedantic scriptures, doing mantra meditation(something that is a complete inverse of self-inquiry) and keeping Ramana's photo near his bed. he did just that for 25 freaking years without any permanent awakening experience. Finally he met Francis who introduced him to the direct path of putting awareness on awareness..that indeed liberated him within 1-2 years. In his own words, that time was like a constant fire works for him as everything he read in the scriptures were being directly experienced so clearly.

Peter: I'm not familiar with neither his teaching nor his path so I can't comment on that. I only know that he did inhuman level of sitting and contemplating.

Well it's because he was busy with construction works for decades and didn't have the patience/maturity to sit still and self inquire. Upon doing that self-less work for many years, finally his mind was purified and he got enlightened very soon when Ramana finally gave him permission to leave and meditate in a secluded place.

Meanwhile, Shivprakasham Pillai and Sri Sadhu Om are examples who grasped the essence of Ramana's teaching very quickly and got enlightened within 2-5 years.

Like I said, the technique self-inquiry (putting awareness on awareness) is the final gate. But it depends on people to people to come to this door due to their particular idiosyncrasies. Some may take 1 year to come to this gate while others may need lifetimes. 

And self-inquiry is not at all about asking questions or doing some sort of intellectual, clever gymnastics. In a sense, it is an 'unique' 'activity'. The only 'unique' activity there is. While all our experiences are about attending to objects, self-inquiry turns that around and starts attending to the subject. No other activity in any plane does that. And thus people will take their time to get the essence of this practice

Can you provide me a source where Sadhu Om claimed to be liberated and how long it took him?

I asked the scholars michael james and david godman myself. and they don't have any information regarding claiming if he ever realized the self or not.

[Preetom]

20 minutes ago, Hima Izumi said:

Can you provide me a source where Sadhu Om claimed to be liberated and how long it took him?

I asked the scholars michael james and david godman myself. and they don't have any information regarding claiming if he ever realized the self or not.

Can you kidding me? 

After Ramana's death, Sri Sadhu Om was like the only person who really got the essence of Ramana's teaching. People were always coming to him to get clear about Ramana's teaching. Even myself personally, I don't think I would ever get what Ramana really meant by self-inquiry if I didn't read Michael Jame's translations of Sadhu Om's commentaries on this matter. 

I was reading a book called Sadhanai Saram (The essence of spiritual practice) which is a compilation of Sadhu Om's answer to various questions in poetical verse form. You should look into it. In the introduction/preface of that book, it is said that Sadhu Om came to Arunachala in the final years of Ramana's life. Sadhu om only got to stay with Ramana for 5 years before Maharshi died. But even in that short time, he was one of those rare devotees of Ramana who really got his message to it's core while many others were kissing Ramana's feet for 50 years and were still deluded as day 1.

Some deluded, egotiscal fools got jealous of Sadhu om when people flocked to him to clarify Ramana's teachings. 

I'm linking the PDF version of the book. Sri Sadhu Om was someone who really lived up to being a truly liberated soul just like Ramana. He transcended all the petty egoic need for validation, name, fame, wealth etc and never claimed himself as a teacher or guru. He never talked about this stuff unless someone requested for a clarification or asked a question. He said that there is only one guru and that is Maharshi himself. He was so humble, no wonder people didn't know about his self-realization due to his silent, secluded lifestyle.

http://www.happinessofbeing.com/Sadhanai_Saram.pdf

Edited March 29, 2019 by Preetom

[Hima Izumi]

I have read his stuff.

I am aware of his rich knowledge.

But STILL he never claimed to be liberated.

You said that it took him 2-5 years? where does he state that?

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Hima Izumi

[Preetom]

@Hima Izumi

Some people tend to gauge the real worth of each devotee of Sri Bhagavan by the number of years they lived with Him, since having a long relationship in close proximity with the Guru is usually a major criterion for being qualified to teach or advise others in the proper use of His teaching; although the time a disciple has spent in the physical presence of his Sadguru is not a criterion by which one can judge his spiritual attainment.

When one such person once asked Sri Sadhu Om Swami in a slightly disparaging manner, "You lived with Sri Ramana for only five years; are there not many who lived with Him for many more years than you did?" he replied, "Yes, I am indeed ashamed about it, because when even five seconds were more than sufficient for the divine Power shining in the Presence of Sri Bhagavan to quench the spiritual thirst of mature souls, if five years were necessary in my case, does it not show my state of immaturity?".

- Sadhanai Saram

4 minutes ago, Hima Izumi said:

But STILL he never claimed to be liberated.

does fire ceases to be fire just because it doesn't claim itself to be fire?

Rarest are the liberated souls who wouldn't even make a sound about it. While the inverse of that; big-mouthed deluded fools; come in many numbers don't they? 

[Dumb Enlightened]

Talking about realization through the self inquiry, I had two kinds of realizations, the first one happened after a couple of days of intense self inquiry, when suddenly the sense of I was replaced by a quiet mind, and a sense of emptiness. I couldn't describe a felling to it, was just empty.

Another realization, this one I've been having lately, is the dissolution of the sense of " I " replaced by a stillness, calmness and peace, and the mind stopping to conceptualize, and even the perception changes a little, it's like there's something about every single object, they kind of different, it's hard to describe, it's like there's life there, not just an object.
Both realizations had no identification with form, like there's wasn't an identification with being a person, so the thought my body, my mind wasn't there, the difference is one realization being this emptiness, and the other is sort of the opposite, it's like fullness. 
What do you guys think about this 2 different realizations ?

[Jkris]

@Preetom what is putting awareness on awareness? How to do that? Can you pls explain in detail? 

[who chit]

10 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@who chit and I would like to understand if it's possible.

As it's well known,self inquiry seeks to discover or realize the real nature of "I","me" or "self".
It's often taken for granted that what nearly all human beings experience and believe orthink (the I-thought), to be I-me-self, is secondhand knowledge (i.e. social conditioning),along with being identified as the body. This conditioning, and being identified as the body, is what makes the "egoic identity", or ones sense of "I"-"me"-"self."

There is only one "I",not two (advaita). Inquiring into "who" or "what" is it that experiences itself as "I" ,gives one (if "ripe"), direct realization of ones true nature of "self" or  "I". What Ramana referred to as "I-I" or the Self.

 

[Preetom]

32 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@Preetom what is putting awareness on awareness? How to do that? Can you pls explain in detail? 

Right now, go to that which you call as 'I'. If it's a form(sensation/thought etc), notice that you are aware of that. So that form is not 'I', however convincing it may feel. Keep noticing this until you stop taking the sensations in your chest as 'I' habitually.

After you've seen through these body-sensations or image identification, you'll notice that you can't find the 'I' as an object no matter how much you look for. Being aware of awareness starts from this stage. Notice that 'I'(whatever that is) is aware of everything(including all the confusion, suffering etc); but no thing is aware of 'I'. No form(inside or outside) possess the reflective consciousness to be aware of 'I'. No people is aware of 'I', no thought is aware of 'I', no pain/sensation is aware of 'I'. All these things were merely pretending to be the 'I'. But upon looking clearly, they are found to be insentient, dead things with no awareness(even though they feel so dynamic and convincing). ONLY 'I' IS AWARENESS.

From this stage, your job is to be continuously attentive/aware of this 'I' which cannot be located particularly and feels fictitious but yet IT EXISTS AND IT IS THE ONLY THING IN ENTIRE EXPERIENCE THAT IS AWARE. This is what is called 'real' self-inquiry. From Wiki, self-inquiry is the constant attention to the inner awareness of 'I'. Note: You are NOT paying attention to a particular sensation or a thought or any object. You've seen their dead, insentient nature and thus losing interest in form more and more, while being more and more interested in the 'I' that knows all these things.

If you keep persistently doing just that hour after hour, day after day very soon (within 6 months to 2 years depending on how vigilantly you are doing it) you'll permanently realize the Self without a shadow of a doubt. All knowledge, thought, belief, identification, separate form cognition/perception will burn away as if never existed. You simply wouldn't be able to identify as body or anything ever again. the very mechanism of rising as subject to know other objects will be destroyed.

Even though this sounds too good to be true, usually people need decades of trial and errors, purification to get to that final year of constant, vigilant self-inquiry. But who knows, you could be ready for it right now 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Preetom

[tedens]

24 minutes ago, Preetom said:

All knowledge, thought, belief, identification, separate form cognition/perception will burn away as if never existed. You simply wouldn't be able to identify as body or anything ever again. the very mechanism of rising as subject to know other objects will be destroyed

Preety, how to live then?

Edited March 29, 2019 by tedens

[Jkris]

@Preetom Thank you Maharaj ? for your wishes. But still I am not able to understand what you are saying. 

Awareness is aware of everything that is clear. Till that point it is clear.

So awareness can witness the thoughts sensations feelings and also the "I feeling". Also including the feeling of waking state that I am awake. 

The feeling I am awake is constant all during the waking state. 

But none of the above is the Awareness. Or in otherwords the awareness witness perceiver or the subject cannot be perceived. The awareness cannot be located or foccused upon???? 

Self Inquiry - focussing on the I feeling. 

Witnessing - observing everything as witness. 

Only to this extend I am able to understand. 

So what I am failing to understand? My appologies for my inability to understand. 

[tedens]

@Jkris watch Leo's video till you grasp it.

[Jkris]

@tedens Sure I will. Thank you. 

[Preetom]

1 hour ago, tedens said:

Preety, how to live then?

It's impossible to conceptualize about post-awakening state. It's safe to say that you're life as body-mind would be over; only other people will see your body moving and doing shit.

One probably wouldn't take on this intense journey unless they are utterly dis-satisfied with their so called present life anyway. So there is really no lose. Just the satisfaction of being relieved of a hideous cancer called ''me and my life''.

So the teaching says get enlightened first. Then the notion of how to live afterwards can be addressed if its needed (which it won't)  

1 hour ago, Jkris said:

Self Inquiry - focussing on the I feeling. 

Yes follow that only aware element in your experience. That is what you really call 'I', the perceiver. But notice that you also see everything you are not along the way. So you have to make sure that you are not focusing on some subtle phenomena as 'I'. The deeper you go, your mind will be absolutely silent and it will feel pure bliss. Not a bodily bliss but something that can't be located. Everything else will feel very relaxed.

1 hour ago, Jkris said:

 Witnessing - observing everything as witness. 

Witnessing is something you are already doing in self-inquiry where you are noticing that you are not the phenomena that are popping up. But don't witness as a separate subject located in the head in the back. That is actually identifying the 'I' with some subtle sensations and it won't help you much to wake up.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Preetom

[Preetom]

34 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@Preetom

So what I am failing to understand? My appologies for my inability to understand. 

And last but not the least, when all are said and done, you actually need to sincerely spend time with this technique..with yourself. It's like a musical instrument you learn. You can have the best lessons for the best masters, but progress is only made if you regularly sit with that instrument sincerely. Eventually, you will know your way around that instrument after months and years of practice.

You'll probably spend many months just to see clearly and being 100% convinced that you are not the sensations in the chest or head which are so stubborn and repetitive. This phase contains lots of questioning, reasoning, following the logic that you are not what you perceive over and over millions of times until they loose their hooks on you. This phase is not silent or peaceful at all!

Then comes being aware of being aware. It is silent, peaceful, constant abidance..goes on deeper and deeper...you'll find yourself naturally falling into awareness when gross body-sensation identifications are seen through... until everything pops and you realize you are the Self without any shadow of a doubt.

Hope these posts were helpful. Good luck

Edited March 29, 2019 by Preetom

[Truth Addict]

@who chit

Thank you so much, I wasn't exactly aware of this aspect, right now I don't know what I am.

You gave me a light and a way to walk, thank you 

[who chit]

57 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@who chit

Thank you so much, I wasn't exactly aware of this aspect, right now I don't know what I am.

You gave me a light and a way to walk, thank you