Using the force of God as an excuse to have sex your son's wife?

[tsuki]

8 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

At the same time I believe that the teacher and student are one so I see it as an amazing opportunity.

@mandyjw It is. If he's willing to take it one day he'll be surprised.
On the other hand, I just realized how deeply I believe that he's above.

I guess that the equilibrium of teacher=student can be reached from both ends .
How's that for an opportunity hahaha. No wonder he doesn't engage with us.

Edited March 28, 2019 by tsuki

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

@mandyjw It is. If he's willing to take it one day he'll be surprised.
On the other hand, I just realized how deeply I believe that he's above.

I guess that the path of teacher=student connection can be reached from both ends .
How's that for an opportunity hahaha.

Well that's just it. It was always just you. So if you see something that you want to change about someone else you can, you just have to change it about yourself. Myself. Whatever. 

[tsuki]

@mandyjw I bet that a term I=you=we rings some bells with you.
@Zweistein and @now is forever would like to have a word with you .

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv You touched on two points I'm currently trying to figure out about life in general. 

I think that to better understand feelings you can make a sort of hierarchy,

form (material beings and objects), 

spoken or written language

thoughts

feelings

being/ body awareness

deeper being, oneness with all life/ enlightenment, love, God, the thing, language and thoughts cannot point to.

So feelings are the thing that really bridges our mind with that deeper being. That's why they are so important and cannot be overlooked. You have to move through feeling to integrate everything. If you separate feeling from being the connection that it is, it seems useless so it makes sense to say it can be thrown away. Feelings are something that one can be easily caught up with, overtaken with and they can be really difficult to regulate and control. It's a particular challenge for men, whether that's because of nature or nurture or both, I really don't know. The answer is not don't have feelings. The temptation to skip right from thoughts and intellect to being or deeper being is a fantasy. It can be done successfully, but 24/7 practical life comes in and ruins everything, usually in the form of what we call "ego backlash". Ego backlash is a sign that you neglected your feelings. 

The other thing I'm trying to figure out is the balance of darkness and light and you asked if I see them as something that should be equal or if I think darkness is a stepping stone. So far, I have always seen them as something that should be equal, because giving them equal attention was equivalent to the truth in my eyes. Now I've dropped that belief. To me enlightenment is equal to love. It is the love that connects us. Focus on the darkness is what causes us to judge other people and disconnect from them. Focusing on darkness in others strengthens our own egos. The darkness and the evil separates. It's value is that it is a part of us and it has to exist for love to exist. It has to be acknowledged. Beyond that it is something that should not be meditated on or focused on. 

 

 

 

[Forestluv]

@mandyjw Nice contemplations. Thank you. 

In the past I was hyper intellectual and then I went to the other extreme that thinking is “bad” and I need to shut it off. I’m realizing more and more that they are a group of musicians playing together in the band. Intellect and emotion integrated together, cooperating. Sometimes they play together, sometimes intellect has a solo. Sometimes emotion has a solo. Emotion is like the drums in a jazz band. I used to think the drums were a secondary  instrument in the background that made a bunch of noise. Yet I’ve cone to appreciate the drums and their contribution. They are beautiful.

Regarding darkness, I notice I have a tendency to group stuff as “negative” emotion or datkness. Yet when I look closer, some of that darkness isn’t so dark. For example, sometimes I feel a deep sadness. I may listen to sad songs and become really sad for an afternoon. I would generally think that sadness is dark and something I should move away from. Yet that one afternoon I just allowed the sadness to enter and I went with it. It had a beautiful quality to it. There was a love and connection present. An essence in the present moment. I shared this with a couple friends and their response was the same “Oh no, what’s wrong? What can I do to help?”. Yet it wasn’t like that. 

[tsuki]

43 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

The other thing I'm trying to figure out is the balance of darkness and light and you asked if I see them as something that should be equal or if I think darkness is a stepping stone. So far, I have always seen them as something that should be equal, because giving them equal attention was equivalent to the truth in my eyes. Now I've dropped that belief.

@mandyjw You are correct in that light and dark do not need to be balanced, but it does not mean that you should choose one over the other.

45 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

It's value is that it is a part of us and it has to exist for love to exist.

Choosing one end of this duality honors the whole of it.

[mandyjw]

6 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@mandyjw You are correct in that light and dark do not need to be balanced, but it does not mean that you should choose one over the other.

Choosing one end of this duality honors the whole of it.

There's truth to what you're saying but when you apply it in practicality to life you cannot choose dark.

Read Viktor Frankl's Man's Search For Meaning and tell me he was deluded.  

That's what I'd like, a little more focus on Viktor Frankl, a little less Hitler. We already know all about Hitler. They taught us all about Hitler in school. Few of us were taught about Victor Frankl.  

[mandyjw]

25 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@mandyjw Regarding darkness, I notice I have a tendency to group stuff as “negative” emotion or datkness. Yet when I look closer, some of that darkness isn’t so dark. For example, sometimes I feel a deep sadness. I may listen to sad songs and become really sad for an afternoon. I would generally think that sadness is dark and something I should move away from. Yet that one afternoon I just allowed the sadness to enter and I went with it. It had a beautiful quality to it. There was a love and connection present. An essence in the present moment. I shared this with a couple friends and their response was the same “Oh no, what’s wrong? What can I do to help?”. Yet it wasn’t like that. 

I think that's the magic. Nothing is dark in its essence but we make it so in our minds. That can only be true in experience though. There is no value in telling people that Hitler was not evil. It is not something that intellectually needs to be understood. Trying to do so can be a dangerous distraction. 

The truth that there is no good nor bad but thinking makes it truth is a SECONDARY realization. Let people discover it for themselves and not think they have to dig up the most disgusting videos they can find on the web as some sort of spiritual practice and watch them without feeling or judgement to get enlightened. 

[tsuki]

20 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

There's truth to what you're saying but when you apply it in practicality to life you cannot choose dark.

Read Viktor Frankl's Man's Search For Meaning and tell me he was deluded.  

That's what I'd like, a little more focus on Viktor Frankl, a little less Hitler. We already know all about Hitler. They taught us all about Hitler in school. Few of us were taught about Victor Frankl.  

@mandyjw Stop focusing. Stop choosing. Light and dark don't fight each other. You are not their apostle.
It is not only that you cannot choose dark, but also cannot choose love. It's not a choice.
Love can take care of itself, so can emptiness. Hitler doesn't care what you think of him. Frankl too, for that matter.

Edited March 28, 2019 by tsuki

[mandyjw]

10 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@mandyjw Stop focusing. Stop choosing. Light and dark don't fight each other. You are not their apostle.
Love can take care of itself, so can emptiness. Hitler doesn't care what you think of him. Frankl too, for that matter.

This is why focus is necessary. And separation is necessary. Bear with me here, because I know what I'm saying is blasphemous and taboo and oh so very PEDESTRIAN and low level. 

Ego death and actual physical death are the same thing. Thinking they aren't is creating yet another a duality. You exist as a limited form for a reason. That is the very thing that means you have the power to choose and make decisions and create things as an expression of life. That duality of life and death is exactly why you are alive. Getting rid of that duality means there is nothing.

You have to choose, life or death.

Light or dark. 

Pick one and love, appreciate and thank the other for it's existence because it is what allows you to be.

Enlightenment is just a bounce back into going about your stupid life again, knowing that transcendence was ONLY an internal transformation and not an external one. Disappointing? Only to the ego. 

Still alive. Still an ego with likes and dislikes. Just a self realized one. 

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

This is why focus is necessary. And separation is necessary. Bear with me here, because I know what I'm saying is blasphemous and taboo and oh so very PEDESTRIAN and low level. 

@mandyjw It does not sound pedestrian at all.

What is the difference between 'can' and 'must'?

[mandyjw]

4 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@mandyjw It does not sound pedestrian at all.

What is the difference between 'can' and 'must'?

One implies freedom and the other the lack of freedom? 

[tsuki]

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

One implies freedom and the other the lack of freedom? 

@mandyjw Oh yeah, we're back to implications and mind stuff.
Short answers that can't be pulled on. What does freedom mean to you so that you defend it so dearly?

[mandyjw]

9 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@mandyjw Oh yeah, we're back to implications and mind stuff.
Short answers that can't be pulled on. What does freedom mean to you so that you defend it so dearly?

Are you shaming me for going back to implications and mind stuff? Because communication requires the mind. 

Freedom is life. I enjoy my life, I enjoy my ego, I enjoy my freedom. It's all an illusion, but it is a breathtakingly beautiful one.

You're like someone who won't stop talking in the movie theater.

SHUT UP AND LET ME WATCH THE DAMN MOVIE. I paid to see this goddamn movie, and I'm not leaving before it's over. I know it's not real. Stop whispering in my ear that it's not real. 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by mandyjw

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I paid to see this goddamn movie

Oh yeah, here it is. The golden nugget.
I'm not saying it's not real. You can leave this conversation whenever you want.
I am not shaming you at all. I think you're cute. Not in a patronizing way, of course .

Edited March 28, 2019 by tsuki

[mandyjw]

Just now, tsuki said:

Oh yeah, here it is. The golden nugget.
I'm not saying it's not real. You can leave this conversation whenever you want.
I am not shaming you at all. I think you're cute.

Oh no, I'm finding out a lot about what I think that I did not know I thought. 

How is that the golden nugget? 

[tsuki]

8 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

How is that the golden nugget? 

How would I know? You launched with this barrage after I asked you a few questions:

15 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

SHUT UP AND LET ME WATCH THE DAMN MOVIE. I paid to see this goddamn movie, and I'm not leaving before it's over. I know it's not real. Stop whispering in my ear that it's not real. 

The fact that I claim that something is not true does not imply that the opposite is true.
I never said that reality is in any way in particular. All of this is your stuff. You're welcome.

[mandyjw]

5 minutes ago, tsuki said:

How would I know? You launched with this barrage after I asked you a few questions:

The fact that I claim that something is not true does not imply that the opposite is true.
I never said that reality is in any way in particular. All of this is your stuff. You're welcome.

Thank you. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

I think that's the magic. Nothing is dark in its essence but we make it so in our minds. That can only be true in experience though. There is no value in telling people that Hitler was not evil. It is not something that intellectually needs to be understood. Trying to do so can be a dangerous distraction. 

The truth that there is no good nor bad but thinking makes it truth is a SECONDARY realization. Let people discover it for themselves and not think they have to dig up the most disgusting videos they can find on the web as some sort of spiritual practice and watch them without feeling or judgement to get enlightened. 

I think you are touching upon intellectual and emotional beliefs. A mind may intellectually believe a person is evil  and a body may emotionally believe a person is evil. This was one thing I realized a few years ago. For example, I worked through a lot of childhood issues intellectually and thought I was done. I didn’t have intellectual issues with it anymore. Yet I hadn’t realized how deep it goes. There were deeper emotional and body memory issues I hadn’t worked through.  It seems when both mind/body and intellect/emotion “get it” there is embodiment.

[tsuki]

52 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

SHUT UP AND LET ME WATCH THE DAMN MOVIE. I paid to see this goddamn movie, and I'm not leaving before it's over. I know it's not real. Stop whispering in my ear that it's not real. 

@mandyjw I don't like how we ended this conversation, so I'm going to respond again.
Physical body does not die upon enlightenment. You are reacting to your imagination.

Edited March 28, 2019 by tsuki