Using the force of God as an excuse to have sex your son's wife?

[AlwaysBeNice]

It can be done!

 

[Leo Gura]

@AlwaysBeNice Don't you dare question God's will!

The irony is that if it actually happened, it was God's will. Lol. Things only happen by God's will.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Sure. Albeit if you say, it's not my personal craving will, but my higher compassionate power, or, a separate higher power, against deeper knowing, you can experience lying.

He also claimed to be the embodiment of God, as far as I could see, it was his personal possession in his mind, interesting zen devil documentary.

[pluto]

Oh Dog...

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@AlwaysBeNice Don't you dare question God's will!

The irony is that if it actually happened, it was God's will. Lol. Things only happen by God's will.

@Leo Gura I have a question about something that is not directly related to this topic, I see it happening quite a bit with you and many other higher evolved individuals. I am currently making myself familiar with Ken Wilber's model of cognitive/consciousness development/evolution.

When making statements like "Things only happen by God's will." are we not running into the risk of confusing and deluding people due to the stark difference in interpretation between gross, casual, subtle and non-dual state of consciousness, and also due to a difference in cognition from different cognitive stages? 

It seems to me like a person only capable of, for example, formal operational thought is actually incapable of correctly interpreting your statement, due to the inherent limitations of his cognition. Statements coming from vision logic or beyond will actually cease to be the same statements when viewed from formal operational cognition. When they read it and they are at that stage, and they agree with you, they are actually wrong about what they agree with you about. And if they do not agree, they are wrong too because they do not even comprehend the true meaning of the statement. Either way they will come out confused, whether they believe you or not.

And to me this is a real problem in the spiritual community, especially with non-dual "truths" that are being thrown around like candy, necessarily misinterpreted by those who hear them, as they themselves cannot truly understand the meaning of those truths if they have not reached any non-dual states.

 

In this forum alone I see countless of people who are adopting non-dual, casual, subtle or psychic intellectual positions without having even experienced these states. And furthermore it seems like these statements only make sense while being in the particular state they originated from, which further complicates everything as it can easily lead to self-delusion by the person who has temporarily experienced one of these states.

 

What do we do about this problem? I know your style is not conducive to the zen-master riddle approach, but are you not worried about leading people on the wrong path if you give them higher truths that they are bound to be deluded and misinterpreted? Wouldn't a spiral wizard be a little more sophisticated, by for example luring a person to the next stage instead of going full non-dual on them if they are far removed from that realm?

[mandyjw]

@Scholar I agree. 

@Leo Gura You are God. You created this community and attracted all the people in it. Their pain and misunderstandings are your own pain. The curse you brought upon yourself as a guru and teacher is that you will need to address the problems of this community as your own before you can evolve further. You need to go back and correct the imbalances. You cannot become free of ego and separate yourself from their basic misunderstandings and self-created pain and problems. Stop focusing on your own high level goals and instead focus on the basic problems of the community and your highest goals will become realized at no effort of your own.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by mandyjw

[Rokazulu]

10 hours ago, Shiva said:

Well, the great thing about God's will is that it is unverifiable for other people. So, you can use it to justify whatever the hell you want.

You can have sex with your son's wife - God's will.

You can rape someone - God's will.

You can start a war - God's will, of course.

And as long as people believe, they will think this is a legitimate argument because God's will mustn't be questioned!
 

 

It is God's will to say no

It is God's will to forgive

It is God's will to create peace

As long as people understand God's will is all sides of everything, they can more easily choose a preferable experience for themselves and others.

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Rokazulu
a bit nicer

[tecladocasio]

This '' It Is all God's will '' makes no sense , and I don't see any purpose in saying that , really . It's really dumb and ignorant . 

[yangmilun]

Gossip mode: what???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[Preetom]

Nothing happens without the force of God!

May the force be with you.

[SoonHei]

@tecladocasio

here. look at it this way.

unsure if this will fully capture it but let me try.

when you say something does not make sense... sometime just taking into account the context = hitting the nail on its head.

 

for example, 2+2 = 22

does that make sense to you?

probably not. but let's say 2+2 = 22 was a title of a book. now it changes the whole deal. it is just a statement. no forcing whether it is true or false. it is, what it is. or let's say that is an equation which works in a certain universe being portrayed in a movie. 

changing the context can make sense of what does not make sense to you currently.

 

"It is god's will" really truly simply just means that it has happened. and what has happened, has happened, cannot be undone. it already is.

it is god's will = it is what was meant to happen 

kind of like a plot of the movie.

a character gets raped in a movie... "it is the writer's/director's will"

in the context of the movie it will not make sense and is not even relevant 

you have to go META with these concepts

 

so same thing here... to understand anything with GOD referenced in it, you have to go META to Life itself to get it.

God's Plan is pretty much like a script being acted out exactly as it should... infinitely connected to everything else unfolding.

[Highest]

God is the only doer and controller. It's all His will whatever happens. Does that mean you can kill people or steal? No, not if you are awake. God's power and grace is within you and you know that you can't do such things. It's divine law. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Highest

[AlwaysBeNice]

2 hours ago, tecladocasio said:

This '' It Is all God's will '' makes no sense , and I don't see any purpose in saying that , really . It's really dumb and ignorant . 

It is the only understanding that brings or is peace, and it's the truth, everyone is innocent, everyone is learning. 

People that don't act innocently are not to be hated, but to be pitied and helped, which may mean a smack in the fact in some cases or putting them in a locked room. 

[thesmileyone]

I read about a Guru who fucked a devotee's wife to relieve him of the attachment of marriage. I thought it was both funny but kind of practical at the same time. They got divorced shortly after... attatchment dissolved if you will.

[Vingger]

Leo gura isn't joking,

He raped my grandma

Edited March 26, 2019 by Vingger

[AlwaysBeNice]

Well, God is also real.

In all fairness, he looks like a decent guy, just a bit ego nutty as well, funny leprechaun. And to be fair, in the docu, one girls spoke how his naked touching gave one of these girls actually a positive spiritual experience. It's weird stuff, but also kinda cool, didn't see all of it though. 

Though, committed spirituality + infected with some ego nutty, still may have disastrous results

Edited March 27, 2019 by AlwaysBeNice

[Shin]

8 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@Scholar I agree. 

@Leo Gura You are God. You created this community and attracted all the people in it. Their pain and misunderstandings are your own pain. The curse you brought upon yourself as a guru and teacher is that you will need to address the problems of this community as your own before you can evolve further. You need to go back and correct the imbalances. You cannot become free of ego and separate yourself from their basic misunderstandings and self-created pain and problems. Stop focusing on your own high level goals and instead focus on the basic problems of the community and your highest goals will become realized at no effort of your own.

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Shin

[Monkey-man]

I don't care, i dont see any point in us being put into dream and us not being able to wake up from it. i don't see any good or reasonable meaning in that. ok put us into dream for beginning, but to make it so difficult to wakeup from that = thats pointless, it can only be understood in that = its tyranny of the devil or god of the dream world.

what you call God is not God because one true God transcends this reality/being.

you call devil as god. and you want to merge with devil through enlightenment but you think that you want to merge with god.

infinite being is devil or god of this world

'absolutely everything' or nothignness at all is not God but creation

true God transcends (HE is not in the boundless infinite oneness totality)

I am sayign that true God created absolutely everything which can exist and which is not him. and this absolutely everythingness is infinite reality that we are in. and infinity has knowledge that there is nothing which can be outside of it.

so whatever you can become you will still be bound by infinity which tells that there is nothing outside of it. which tells u that it is boundless.

can you imagine that GOD is NOT anyone from absolutely everything that can be?

this is impossible. and yet thats how things are.

perhaps the more you go against this reality (devil) the more you are aligned with True God's will

if you read Quran or Gospels you can notice that it is so anti-life anti-being anti-reality anti-this world anti-human beings.

you can say that it is revelations of unstoppable criticism of absolutely everything and they are extremely negative about everything at all.

i dont see any point in us being put into dream, and us not being able to wake up, or making awaking so hard to attain. why would that be the case? why would God will to make awakening so difficult? nope its not that he willed that, its that he created reality which is opposite of him. and here he put us to experience that tyranny of dream prison. and all our life is about being oppressed by the tyrant's will - who is opposite of true God.

yet this is to say that you can't come to God through wanting to come to God because God is not anyone from absolutely everything. so you can only come to him by fighting against absolutely everything including all ideas about God.

so absolutely everything in the whole infinity is temptation, distraction, devilry.

absolutely everything wants to destroy us, to make us suffer, to make us sleep deeper, to put us into temptation. 

and there is no help. no hope. nothignness at all.

only very much insane and brutal and evil and unstoppable fight without any mercy from the side of absolutely infinitely everything.

no logic no meaning no high virtue just brutality of destruction and hypnosis.

inevitable destruction and tyranny of dream kingdom vs bliss beauty happiness and all the good things in life = just two sides of one infinite coin

destruction is just masked by infintie possibilities and bliss and vastness of everythingness.

reality or our mind doesn't oppress us for good reason, or for any meaning. its just pointless tyranny. its just doing harm and bringing pain and destruction with no purpose at all. its just is.

i don't see any point in making us so stupid and weak and unable to wake up and unable to act wilfully and change our stupid existence.

we see that its so stupid what we do but yet we can't at all change our behaviour. we are afraid of waking up

we dont have choice or will or any means to fight. we are helpless.

why make us so weak and wilfully blind????????????

God's will is not in this, but God's will in overcoming tyranny of the devil - mr dream king torturer by the most weak and the most sinful and the most disgusting and the most cowardice and the most stupid of ALL THE CREATION withing ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING - by human!!!

little stupid weak human - worst animal of all -miserable and pathetic- whose basis is biological self- the lowest thing of all-

 human is this tool of God that overcomes tyranny of the dream kingdom which is unjust and meaningless and doesn't give us any freedom or chance to overcome our dream existence or our inevitable destruction.

this reality doesn't give us a chance, a possibility, its hopeless to wakeup, its impossible.

awakening is impossible. and life is unjust and destructive and we are the worst of creature.

and God's will is about overcoming that by the most dreaming ones.

most pathetic and worst and lowest and most helpless and hopeless VS biggest greatest infinite amazing unstoppable 

GOD is not within this dichotomy. but he is one who watches this drama where pathetic human has actually 0% chance

its impossible!!! and there is no hope in doing that.

no positive conclusion about miracle or 'good'.

everything is bad and can't be otherwise.

even if you wake up, you will still be destroyed by rock. and before that you will be victim of the process of destruction all the while living in pain and suffering. and this glimpse of terrible life you will have only for so little time of several decades.

DOOMED.

forget clinging to any kind of positive truth!

its forever bad!

and you will be forever against everything.

coz you just doesn't like anything at all.

coz nothing saves you and others from destruction, possibility of getting into terrible kind of physical pain and oppression of your helpless dream character that is like a prison.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Monkey-man

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, Scholar said:

@Leo Gura I have a question about something that is not directly related to this topic, I see it happening quite a bit with you and many other higher evolved individuals. I am currently making myself familiar with Ken Wilber's model of cognitive/consciousness development/evolution.

When making statements like "Things only happen by God's will." are we not running into the risk of confusing and deluding people due to the stark difference in interpretation between gross, casual, subtle and non-dual state of consciousness, and also due to a difference in cognition from different cognitive stages? 

It seems to me like a person only capable of, for example, formal operational thought is actually incapable of correctly interpreting your statement, due to the inherent limitations of his cognition. Statements coming from vision logic or beyond will actually cease to be the same statements when viewed from formal operational cognition. When they read it and they are at that stage, and they agree with you, they are actually wrong about what they agree with you about. And if they do not agree, they are wrong too because they do not even comprehend the true meaning of the statement. Either way they will come out confused, whether they believe you or not.

And to me this is a real problem in the spiritual community, especially with non-dual "truths" that are being thrown around like candy, necessarily misinterpreted by those who hear them, as they themselves cannot truly understand the meaning of those truths if they have not reached any non-dual states.

In this forum alone I see countless of people who are adopting non-dual, casual, subtle or psychic intellectual positions without having even experienced these states. And furthermore it seems like these statements only make sense while being in the particular state they originated from, which further complicates everything as it can easily lead to self-delusion by the person who has temporarily experienced one of these states.

What do we do about this problem? I know your style is not conducive to the zen-master riddle approach, but are you not worried about leading people on the wrong path if you give them higher truths that they are bound to be deluded and misinterpreted? Wouldn't a spiral wizard be a little more sophisticated, by for example luring a person to the next stage instead of going full non-dual on them if they are far removed from that realm?

Yes, that's basically right. Higher truths/wisdom requires a certain wisdom to understand and interpret properly. Ignorant devils will misinterpret the hell out of all the highest teachings because that's what devils do. Devils turn truth into falsehood. That's the entire function of a devil.

We are sort of damned if we do, and damned if we don't. If we don't talk about God, we are not being honest and people are being mislead. If we do talk about God, we are creating representations of God, all of which are not the actual thing, and people will be mislead. That's the tragedy of our collective situation.

When I speak of God's will, I speak from direct experience. Of course most people have no experience of what God or God's will mean. And any ideas you have about it are wrong. So what are we to do? Direct experience is required to understand the highest teachings.

One of the reasons I'm big on psychedelics is that they give ordinary people such direct experiences very quickly, without decades of grueling practice. So then they can understand me a lot better. You can take a psychedelic and ask it the question, "What is God's will?" or "What is God?" and it will show you the answer very clearly, as long as you are truly open to it and willing to surrender yourself and your beliefs. It might take you a few trips, but you'll get it.

But yes, talking about God to uninformed people is very misleading to them. Because their ideas of God are so confused and backwards. You can really only talk about God to people who have experienced that they are God. Which sort of defeats the point of talking at all. And yet without talking about God how are people gonna find God? Only by accident. Which is not a good solution.

[Forestluv]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

One of the reasons I'm big on psychedelics is that they give ordinary people such direct experiences very quickly, without decades of grueling practice.

They can also save a teacher years of teaching. A six hour trip can teach a person far more in five hours than I could in five years.