“What is Belief?” - My Current Contemplation Insights

[kieranperez]

I’ve been meditating on what the existence of belief is. In order to really start questioning, deeply not knowing, bringing up deeper curiosity, allow for more powerful questioning, and investigation I’ve really been keen on questioning and investigating what exactly is this filter (beliefs) that’s keeping me from being able to deeply question things. 

Despite the fact that I’m someone that’s deeply curious and has profound questions, my ability to contemplate at a hardcore level is stunted essentially by 2 things (keeping life situations out of this context):

• Horribly poor concentration... at times - working on that ADHD with the help of @Robby believe it or not along with concentrative meditation. However, at night I notice I’m abnormally calm and can drop into deep borderline samadhi like concentration where my observation can be totally unobstructed for several minutes at a time... quite surreal.
• Beliefs

Starting this contemplation I thought ‘I really just want to grasp the existential nature of what a belief is. So, rather than start with something like the belief that I’m Kieran... let’s start with a more ordinary one.’ What I noticed though interestingly enough was that no matter what belief I really decided to work with... it still seemed real.

For example, my mind came up with ‘I don’t have any beliefs.’ First off, I recognized that trap. Which was interesting. Then I put closed my eyes and began to “look for” the belief that there is an external world. Again... my mind didn’t want to recognize that it was assuming that. In fact my assumption was that I believed I knew better to believe in an external world! There it was again! A lack of both wanting and ability to self reflect because my mind already feels like it knew. 

I really started to get the depths of the analogy of how a fish doesn’t recognize it’s in water. 

Beliefs are so tricky to contemplate because you don’t see it as a belief. One of the hard parts when you cover a lot of “spiritual theory” is that beliefs start to become even trickier to spot because then, as this stuff starts to make more conceptual sense, that becomes the new beliefs and the new self bias! 

[tsuki]

@kieranperez There is no such thing as belief in my experience.
There are thoughts about beliefs, but there are no beliefs themselves to be found anywhere.
These thoughts form theories of cognition that explain the workings of what we call a mind.
They are used to justify coherence of experience, which is ultimately unjustifiable.
It is a feeling that appears by pure miracle.

Metaphysically, I would say that beliefs are the substance of the mind.
If I were to get cheeky, I would say that beliefs are a belief.

Edited March 26, 2019 by tsuki

[kieranperez]

@tsuki this answers nothing. 

[tsuki]

@kieranperez Yes, it gives no satisfaction to a mind that rages with curiosity.

Edited March 26, 2019 by tsuki

[kieranperez]

Just now, tsuki said:

@kieranperez Yes, it gives no satisfaction to a mind that rages with curiosity.

No curiosity, no enlightenment.

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

No curiosity, no enlightenment.

@kieranperez You are looking for answers.
Existentially, satisfying answers are what extinguishes curiosity.
Instead of satiating it with thoughts, it's more fruitful to balance it with doubt. You're doing great.

Edited March 26, 2019 by tsuki

[kieranperez]

Just now, tsuki said:

@kieranperez You are looking for answers.
Existentially, satisfying answers are what extinguishes curiosity.

Where do you see me “looking for answers”? Where do you see me asking you what your opinion is on what a belief is? 

When you don’t know, DEEPLY don’t know, the possibility of curosity is possible. When there’s curiosity there can be a sufficient inquiry/investigation/contemplation. There is no investigation without curiosity. Scurry around that whatever way you want, but thats all you be doing. 

I don’t care what your “answer” is because I’m not asking for one. 

[tsuki]

5 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

I don’t care what your “answer” is because I’m not asking for one. 

@kieranperez Okay. Why are you contemplating then?

Edited March 26, 2019 by tsuki

[kieranperez]

15 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@kieranperez Okay. Why are you contemplating then?

The same reason why we contemplate towards our true nature.

I don’t know and I want to know. 

 

[tsuki]

6 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

I don’t know and I want to know. 

@kieranperez Are you looking for your own answers then? I know that feeling.
My answer would never satisfy you in that case.
I hope that one day you will find them, look back at this thread and laugh.

Good luck!

Edited March 26, 2019 by tsuki

[Consilience]

This is a very interesting facet to beliefs you’ve uncovered... Thank you for sharing.

[Shadowraix]

@tsuki Beliefs are more like a mechanism like the ego. 

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, kieranperez said:

I’ve been meditating on what the existence of belief is. In order to really start questioning, deeply not knowing, bringing up deeper curiosity, allow for more powerful questioning, and investigation I’ve really been keen on questioning and investigating what exactly is this filter (beliefs) that’s keeping me from being able to deeply question things. 

Despite the fact that I’m someone that’s deeply curious and has profound questions, my ability to contemplate at a hardcore level is stunted essentially by 2 things (keeping life situations out of this context):

• Horribly poor concentration... at times - working on that ADHD with the help of @Robby believe it or not along with concentrative meditation. However, at night I notice I’m abnormally calm and can drop into deep borderline samadhi like concentration where my observation can be totally unobstructed for several minutes at a time... quite surreal.
• Beliefs

Starting this contemplation I thought ‘I really just want to grasp the existential nature of what a belief is. So, rather than start with something like the belief that I’m Kieran... let’s start with a more ordinary one.’ What I noticed though interestingly enough was that no matter what belief I really decided to work with... it still seemed real.

For example, my mind came up with ‘I don’t have any beliefs.’ First off, I recognized that trap. Which was interesting. Then I put closed my eyes and began to “look for” the belief that there is an external world. Again... my mind didn’t want to recognize that it was assuming that. In fact my assumption was that I believed I knew better to believe in an external world! There it was again! A lack of both wanting and ability to self reflect because my mind already feels like it knew. 

I really started to get the depths of the analogy of how a fish doesn’t recognize it’s in water. 

Beliefs are so tricky to contemplate because you don’t see it as a belief. One of the hard parts when you cover a lot of “spiritual theory” is that beliefs start to become even trickier to spot because then, as this stuff starts to make more conceptual sense, that becomes the new beliefs and the new self bias! 

thank you, i just had a really interesting insight into internal external as i send my third eye to the boundaries of my physical world. would you say the boundary of the skin is the boundary of the body? and then where does the boundary begin? would you say the earth surface is the boundary of the earth and if, then what about the oxygen shield? and is there a boundary between water and earth or is it all just a big ball with oxygen and ends where the oxygen ends? and what about sending out a spaceship is that still part of the earth or is it part of the emptiness much more?

Edited March 26, 2019 by now is forever

[tsuki]

26 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

@tsuki Beliefs are more like a mechanism like the ego. 

@Shadowraix Yes. They are what ego hinges upon.

It has something to do with meaning. We can always flip a thought upside down to create an opposite.
Meaning is a non-discursive feeling that attracts towards one polarity of a thought as opposed to another.

Now that I think of it, beliefs may be the physical structure of the brain.
That's a new one.

Edited March 26, 2019 by tsuki

[Highest]

47 minutes ago, now is forever said:

thank you, i just had a really interesting insight into internal external as i send my third eye to the boundaries of my physical world. 

So you are there with your third eye active??Been there, done that. It's called spiritual awakening. 

[Shadowraix]

46 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Now that I think of it, beliefs may be the physical structure of the brain.

Beliefs do seem influenced by repetition which is a good portion of how we function.

[now is forever]

@Highest no - it’s more wandering vision i’m not yet sure if both third eyes are really connected. suppose what yo call third eye here is a phenomenon of kundalini awakening - had that last may/june. what i called third eye right now is more the psychic creative imaginative form of third eye. the one that made it even possible to experience the chacras openings - it sometimes wanders into the space and from there into imagination. i’m still not sure if the “ajna” that is also connected symbolically with the third eye and this third eye are really connected.

Edited March 26, 2019 by now is forever

[Highest]

@now is forever Ah okay.??

Kundalini is powerful but divine stuff. Have gone through it almost the whole way. 

[Joseph Maynor]

A belief is a linear statement (a type of thought) purported to be true or reasonable to accept by the Ego-Mind; or a linear statement that the Ego-Mind has a vested interest in assuming is true or reasonable to accept for whatever reason.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Zigzag Idiot]

59 minutes ago, now is forever said:

. i’m still not sure if the “ajna” that is also connected symbolically with the third eye and this third eye are really connected.

Ajgna is third eye. Home of the intuition. Connected with the pituitary gland. Kundalini activates it but only if one stays grounded in the body. If Kundalini is not grounded, it is just motor fuel for imagination.

Activation of the third eye is subtle. A slight but distinct  pressure or throb is usually felt in the forehead.

Just waking up, my communication style is Forest Gump Gnosticism.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot