today i realized

[thesmileyone]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@thesmileyone So cool to see you digging deeper and exploring. Great stuff ?? 

The main lesson is really honesty. A few weeks ago I was raving here about nonduality then shit got depressive then deeper and made me realise I know nothing... and how silly I feel for giving people advice when I know nothing ha ha

So I am sort of limiting myself to this thread, which I will update when and if...

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, thesmileyone said:

The main lesson is really honesty. A few weeks ago I was raving here about nonduality then shit got depressive then deeper and made me realise I know nothing... and how silly I feel for giving people advice when I know nothing ha ha

It’s good to know I’m not the only one to have experienced that ☺️

[thesmileyone]

3 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@thesmileyone

Drugs are for people who  are completely caught up in reality. They artificially destroy your resistance to things. They can only give you a glimpse at best of what reality could be like without resistance. Dropping your resistance is a practice you can only do when you are lucid. 

Drugs are also only for people who are really advanced so that you don't take chances of entering states of psychosis or extreme depression and confusion.

In my opinion drugs should only be used is cases of those who have severe PSD or similar issues. I get their value in a lot of cases but I think the drawbacks way outweigh the benefits. You put a huge block in your path when you credit a drug for letting you achieve a certain state. 

The problem with not using drugs is that you think there's a problem with not using drugs. 

 

Thank you, that's not quite my point though.

I have done thousands of hours of meditation now and still not experienced some of what people talk about, for example the full blown "ego death" that one experiences vaping N-N-DMT.

When i try and get advice from really "advanced" people they often compare meditation to a psychedelic experience. When you tell them you have not done psychedelics they dismiss you and your experiences as "basic" or similar.

I recently found out that I have never meditated "properly" as in you are supposed to do samatha breathe or object meditation and then when you go through the jhanas you switch to formless / nirguna meditation, I always went straight to formless ie shut my eyes, get comfortable, an itch occurs, ignore it, POP! into the void. So I didn't know what jhanas were. Which didn't help when talking to people either But of course thousands of hours of nirguna meditation has given me quite an advantage because some people never move from Samatha breathe/object meditation.

I don't think there's a problem with not using drugs rather I wonder if I am missing something by not doing so. Most people on the path to enlightenment have their awakening via drugs then try to get it again via meditation, there's even videos like "How to have a natural DMT trip" by remembering your DMT trip and getting into the same headspace...I can't do any of this as I have not done the drugs...

I'm like a guy with a PHD in Physics who never went to school and learned how to write...

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by thesmileyone
typo

[Forestluv]

@thesmileyone You’ve done thousands of hours of mediation and are yearning to go deeper. What’s holding you back from trying a psychedelic once or twice? 

And I would not use DMT the first time. The strong visuals can be distracting and make it harder to integrate imo.

As well, I would be weary of psychonauts in their own little world. I think those that are well balanced and also do meditation, yoga, journaling, retreats etc. are more mature. 

[Roman25]

@thesmileyone Luckily for you, humans are very fickle creatures. So if you're depressed about something, it will pass as long as you don't purposefully cling to it. 

Have you ever had a profile picture and got bored of it after a while? That's your fickleness coming into play. This has a downside however. It can be frustrating when you no longer care for things that you once did but this greatly helps your survive since in the future, you won't care for what is currently depressing you.

Depression is on and off but then you stop caring about whatever was causing it to begin with. I was suicidal for several months now since I was an extensional nihilist who had a very negative outlook on life. I am now bored thinking about it and am fairly happy currently with life.

You will experience extremely negative emotions a lot in life. Keep in mind that it's impossible for you to always care for a problem or feel the same way about it. My advice is to suffer through whatever you are currently feeling until it passes. Repeat this cycle for the other problems you will encounter in life and you will live a long life as long as you don't get unlucky with a heart attack or dying randomly like so. Life is a bit of a dice roll but you mainly have control over how it will play out as long is you don't defy the odds of physics.

[Monkey-man]

@thesmileyone for me permanent awakening is permanent presence or being present moment

so you are saying that you have been 'the presence' but its gone now?

what do you think makes presence to dissappear?

 

[mandyjw]

9 hours ago, thesmileyone said:

Thank you, that's not quite my point though.

I have done thousands of hours of meditation now and still not experienced some of what people talk about, for example the full blown "ego death" that one experiences vaping N-N-DMT.

When i try and get advice from really "advanced" people they often compare meditation to a psychedelic experience. When you tell them you have not done psychedelics they dismiss you and your experiences as "basic" or similar.

I recently found out that I have never meditated "properly" as in you are supposed to do samatha breathe or object meditation and then when you go through the jhanas you switch to formless / nirguna meditation, I always went straight to formless ie shut my eyes, get comfortable, an itch occurs, ignore it, POP! into the void. So I didn't know what jhanas were. Which didn't help when talking to people either But of course thousands of hours of nirguna meditation has given me quite an advantage because some people never move from Samatha breathe/object meditation.

I don't think there's a problem with not using drugs rather I wonder if I am missing something by not doing so. Most people on the path to enlightenment have their awakening via drugs then try to get it again via meditation, there's even videos like "How to have a natural DMT trip" by remembering your DMT trip and getting into the same headspace...I can't do any of this as I have not done the drugs...

I'm like a guy with a PHD in Physics who never went to school and learned how to write...

 

This is all distraction and comparison, with some more comparison thrown in. They have nothing you don't. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by mandyjw

[mandyjw]

11 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@mandyjw Well said. I've had similar observations and experience with drugs. If a person is immature or unstable, I think the risk of drugs being counter-productive is really high. I've seen some exceptions, yet in general drugs seem to be counter-productive and can cause destabalization, dependency, escapism, chasing experiences, delusions of awakening etc. 

I also agree that they can be useful for mental conditions like PTSD. Yet I would add that the studies showing positive results included participants that had already gone through years of therapy. And the experience was in a safe environment with a trusted health-care provider and a loved one present. After the experience, there was further counseling to help integrate the lessons. This is a very different setting than someone ordering some psychedelics online and going it alone.

I also agree that when a person reaches a certain baseline level of consciousness the dynamic changes. It then becomes a powerful consciousness tool that can save a person years of practice and work. Even then, I think it takes skill to use them wisely. I think one of the keys is being able to integrate the drug-induced lessons into a sober mindset and sober living. I think that takes maturity and skill. It seems that people with a solid foundation of years of spiritual study and practice like mediation, yoga, journaling, spiritual retreats etc. have a much better chance of using the tool wisely.

Yes, that's a very important point about the difference between self treating a condition and using them as therapy in a controlled environment.

My concern is that when people hear that drugs can save them years of work, the temptation to do them before they are ready is huge because they want to be like other people they see and they want what they want now. If you are already spiritually advanced enough for psychedelics to become part of your path, they will be. I think the discussion and suggestion of using drugs to people as a general audience is a major disservice. 

It's easy for me to tell other people that they shouldn't use drugs because I'm happy with my progress and haven't touched a single substance. 

It's also easy for people to tell others that drugs are a powerful tool because that was their experience.

The most important thing is to trust in your own experience and not get caught up in the idea of conditions needing to be just so because the problem is not your conditions but the power you give them over you.