How to get over guilt?

[Truth Addict]

6 minutes ago, Commodent said:

@Truth Addict "I might have murdered this person, but I shouldn't be guilty because I was destined to do that".

The point isn't that you should or shouldn't feel a certain emotion.

The point is that it isn't even up to you how you feel.

[Shadowraix]

12 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Labels, just labels. Consciousness, free will, no free will, ego, tree, car, reality, etc...

It's quite a problem trying to convey silence with sound.

If we want to be accurate, then all we can say about it is this:

 

Yeah that's why you gotta try and locate what I'm saying in your direct experience 

[Truth Addict]

1 minute ago, Shadowraix said:

Yeah that's why you gotta try and locate what I'm saying in your direct experience 

In my direct experience, all labels are illusions.

So, it doesn't matter what I think. It will never be the case.

Life is fine and it's never stopped working without my thinking, so why even think?

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

In my direct experience, all labels are illusions.

So, it doesn't matter what I think. It will never be the case.

Life is fine and it's never stopped working without my thinking, so why even think?

I meant follow the pointers. Thats the whole point of concepts.

Yeah all labels are illusion but so is everything so it doesn't really mean much for those living in the illusion.

[Truth Addict]

14 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Yeah all labels are illusion but so is everything so it doesn't really mean much for those living in the illusion.

Excuse me!

Just to be clear:

Everything is Truth, illusion is misidentification of Truth.

That's what I know, how is everything an illusion?

[Shadowraix]

19 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Excuse me!

Just to be clear:

Everything is Truth, illusion is misidentification of Truth.

That's what I know, how is everything an illusion?

What separates illusion and Truth? Absolutely nothing.

[Truth Addict]

10 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

What separates illusion and Truth? Absolutely nothing.

illusion (ego, me) is part of Truth (God, Me).

Illusion is the part, not the whole.

(metaphorically speaking).

Edited March 24, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Shadowraix]

24 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

illusion (ego, me) is part of Truth (God, Me).

Illusion is the part, not the whole.

(metaphorically speaking).

Ah a miscommunication then. When I said everything. Wasn't intended literally. My bad. 

[Zetxil]

7 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

I don't know why. Maybe it's a trick, to make life more dramatic and thrilling.

But that isn't conclusive, please go on with me on this inquiry:

Do you choose your desires? How come there's even something called desire? Did you choose to have a desire?

Did you choose to be even born in the first place? Did you choose the family you grew up in? Did you choose the kind of teaching that you've got since the day you were born right until now? Did you choose to think you have a free will? Did you choose what kind of ideas you will pick up while striving in life?

Or,

Is it all a thought, and nothing more, that claims to have free will?

Learning with directed thoughts vs learning without them.

@Truth Addict go on with the inquiry try to figure it out. You may to come to find you like the answer 

going on:

Sometimes! Sometimes my desires come to me! How questions have: an unexpendabley large amount of possibilities that come to be chosen upon collectively. Maybe omnipotence that can truly know the answer to a "how" question and explain it to perfection. The best we've got, so far as I can tell, is to use percentages and using statistics to predict the likelihood of something occurring in a similar manner in the future. There is a whole branch of study dedicated to this question. To expect a perfect answer would be what we are currently trying to do! "How" questions exist though, to question the norm and provide the opportunity for growth to a greater understanding. Desire comes and goes on its own. 

No. yes. yes. no. sometimes! 

or questions have already been addressed earlier in this thread, let's not have to reread. 

That's a good guess, but doesn't seem to fully encapsulate it!

6 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Count me in the NO Free will camp.

I think you gotta have a good chunk of green in yourself to be able to embrace the paradox of free will-NO free will.

@Arcangelo

Oh? care to explain? Maybe you don't see it the way I do! To me it is more of an understanding and integration of paradox itself! In any defense, my knowledge of spiral dynamics is pretty limited (just did a look at a few pics and diagrams). so, I may not have any detailed analysis of each color, but I seem to understand the concept of expansion.

6 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

In my direct experience, all labels are illusions.

So, it doesn't matter what I think. It will never be the case.

Life is fine and it's never stopped working without my thinking, so why even think?

Hey! same here! When I incorporate these illusions into an organized structure cool things happen and they seem to be repeatable to an extent! 

If you see yourself that way you slow progression.

you use think quite often and I find a misunderstanding here. What does it mean to think to you? (assuming you think)

I find thinking can be useful to assist in solving complex tasks in a quicker period of time, along with a few other things!

4 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

illusion (ego, me) is part of Truth (God, Me).

Illusion is the part, not the whole.

(metaphorically speaking).

"Illusion is the part, not the whole." - same here 

"illusion (ego, me) is part of Truth (God, Me)." - That doesn't seem quite right to explain it though. That metaphor seems to linear to me and not quite as encompassing as me truly is. Don't ya think?

Edited March 25, 2019 by Zetxil

[Truth Addict]

@Zetxil

Right there is the illusion of free will, illusion here means not being 100% sure, and that's fine, if you are convinced that this illusion is enough for you, then by all means, believe it, I don't have anything against that.

The free will you're advocating seems on the surface more practical, but pragmatism is part of the illusion as well, and I believe sometimes it's necessary to believe the illusion, and sometimes it isn't, but rather crippling (like in this case, feeling guilty).

After all, you don't choose whether you like to believe or not, it was never your choice, ta-da!

And the same goes for me, I don't choose if I like to not believe the illusion, it was never my choice.

We don't choose when to believe or what to believe, that's a fact. But still, we can believe, it's just not up to us what the choice might be.

As for 'thinking', I use this word loosely, sometimes I mean 'believe', sometimes I mean 'convinced', sometimes I mean 'identity with thought', sometimes I mean 'believe the thoughts', sometimes I mean all of them.

To me, the ego means identification with something, while Truth means literally everything.

[Zetxil]

@Truth Addict

8 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Zetxil

Right there is the illusion of free will, illusion here means not being 100% sure, and that's fine, if you are convinced that this illusion is enough for you, then by all means, believe it, I don't have anything against that.

The free will you're advocating seems on the surface more practical, but pragmatism is part of the illusion as well, and I believe sometimes it's necessary to believe the illusion, and sometimes it isn't, but rather crippling (like in this case, feeling guilty).

After all, you don't choose whether you like to believe or not, it was never your choice, ta-da!

And the same goes for me, I don't choose if I like to not believe the illusion, it was never my choice.

We don't choose when to believe or what to believe, that's a fact. But still, we can believe, it's just not up to us what the choice might be.

We do chose what and when to believe through! To say there isn't choice as fact still misrepresents the Truth of the matter. People practice religions and switch religions all the time! You chose to switch away from Islam (do you not understand the choice in the forming of patterns?) Pragmatism seems to be what we are trying to do here on earth isn't it? To take complex patterns and simplify them into more practical, understandable, and communicatable ways? 

8 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

As for 'thinking', I use this word loosely, sometimes I mean 'believe', sometimes I mean 'convinced', sometimes I mean 'identity with thought', sometimes I mean 'believe the thoughts', sometimes I mean all of them.

To me, the ego means identification with something, while Truth means literally everything.

Same here it can be difficult to ecapsulate all meanings of the word think! 

That seems to be one logical way of thinking about it, and we are trying to bring that truth into our ego so it can be communicated with other egos. The ego has to "go up a level" (one of the most wishy washy things I may have ever said haha) to be able to come back and speak on the same terms of the other egos that identify in a similar manner. This in turn can bring other egos closer to Truth. (I still don't understand why you capitalize the T when you type it!)

When more egos are closer to the truth it seems to be easier for an individual ego to take that next step forward in the direction of truth! 

[Zigzag Idiot]

On 3/22/2019 at 6:38 AM, SoonHei said:

you do something wrong... someone is hurt because of you... you can accept and get over it but you know the other person is hurting...

it's also harder when you know that you knew better than to do that... but you stepped into unconsciousness in that moment and now someone is paying the price.

Being guilty is actually a false, hollow concept with no basis in Objective reality. But in connection with our human experience my two cents are:

Truly experience remorse of Conscience.

Practice not judging others.

Practice forgiveness.

[Truth Addict]

@Zetxil

I'm sorry, I have contemplated what you said, but I kept ending up with the same conclusion: I don't have a free will.

To me, it seems like I'm more of a third-party, as an insider, that is watching the decisions being made without my interference.

"We're all puppets, Laurie. I'm just a puppet who can see the strings." -- Alan Moore

Edited March 27, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Zetxil]

@Truth Addict

Right, and that's fine that you see it that way! But to do the decision of watching the decisions take place is a decision. See where we are going? To make a blanket statement one way or the other is not a in a sense total coverage of the truth! ? one day we all may be aware of our awareness of what it means to be aware and from then on there will be no free will just awareness, but as long as we include the individual (ego/I) in language, the topic will continue to persist! Thanks for the discussion! You have opened my eyes to another light! ?

Edited March 27, 2019 by Zetxil