A Hypothetical Koan

[Joseph Maynor]

16 minutes ago, Consilience said:

A direct experience of truth cannot be communicated with words. Unfortunately there is no correct answer with words, only through direct experience. 

I've gotten to the point where I don't even label it as 'truth' anymore.  To me, that's still the Mind clinging to trying to classify it.  But I understand that there are many people who would disagree with me over this point because I've discussed it ad nauseum with them here on the Forum.  People love clinging to truth.  Truth, truth, truth.  Gotsta have me some truth!  And it's always with a capital T too -- Truth.  Sounds like God in disguise to me lol.  But anyway, I don't want to start a fight.  I can see the pitchforks starting to raise and the bonfire being lit.  

Edited March 21, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Consilience]

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

There are many modes of communication. The modes can be integrated. Intuitive, empathetic, verbal modes etc can be integrated. 

And yet none of these are what a tree is. That is my answer for you. If you think this is from the pov of a human, you still havent grasped what I'm saying. But of course, I do not claimed to be enlightened lol.

 

Im sure the trees have many more lessons for both of us. Much love man, thank you for your perspective and I shall take your advice to heart ❤️

[Consilience]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I've gotten to the point where I don't even label it as 'truth' anymore.  To me, that's still the Mind clinging to trying to classify it.  But I understand that there are many people who would disagree with me over this point because I've discussed it ad nauseum with them on here.

That’s a very interesting point of view... 

[Forestluv]

53 minutes ago, Consilience said:

And yet none of these are what a tree is. That is my answer for you. If you think this is from the pov of a human, you still havent grasped what I'm saying. But of course, I do not claimed to be enlightened lol.

 

Im sure the trees have many more lessons for both of us. Much love man, thank you for your perspective and I shall take your advice to heart ❤️

I understand what you are saying. I’ve been to the null void of Mu and back again. I’ve seen that movie.

I’m talking about something different. Notice how what you are saying did NOT come from the pov of the tree. And that you are not able communicate with trees. It seems like you may have had some nondual experience that got recontextualized at the human level. Ime, that is the key to transcending the human level - to become aware of contextualization at the human level. If you got recontextualuzed at the level of a mouse or rock we would be communicating very differently  right now. 

I can tell you that the tree is pointing to something different than you. 

This is not something the human can do. That is humanism. One must actually go and sit by the tree and communicate. It is a form of conversation.

This is a higher level of communication that requires development of specialized modes of communication.  

For those of you interested in developing such skills. . . if you have reached the trans-personal level and want to evolve higher, the eye gazing practice is good for entry - yet you would need to find another being that has reached a trans-personal level. 

Sit in a meditative posture facing each other and gaze into each other’s eyes for 30 minutes. This is post-intellectual, there should be very few thoughts and the few thoughts that pass by should be far way. As if they are quiet creeks in the floor you don’t even notice. . . This is all nonverbal, nonintellectual. It is also beyond feeling, yet it’s much closer to feelings than thoughts, so it’s ok if there are backfound feelings. Yet front and center are empathetic and intuitive modes. You have a conversation like you’ve never had before. And it is a conversation that transcends time and space. 

The next step would be do do the eye gazing with another species. I like to do it with dragon flies. The advantage with humans is that if you find a high conscious person good at it, they can pull you out n and up if you surrender to it. The advantage I find with dragonflies is that they don’t have a human personality construct that gets in the way. Although the eye gazing will be much shorter time frame.

[FoxFoxFox]

@Serotoninluv I got to say, Koans are dangerous to attempt without a master watching over you. You really need those slaps in the face otherwise your intellect might jut never give up. Before I learned how to surrender (paradoxical statement, i know) i wasted so much trying to imagine "What my face looked like before i was born". It ended up with me identifying with a hazy, imperceptible being - which really is just the mind trying to objectify God. But yeah all it takes to awaken is to allow the Koan to silence the mind. At that moment one is pure awareness. Took long enough to realize though. 

[Forestluv]

@FoxFoxFox Well said ? 

[Joseph Maynor]

8 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Serotoninluv I got to say, Koans are dangerous to attempt without a master watching over you. You really need those slaps in the face otherwise your intellect might jut never give up. Before I learned how to surrender (paradoxical statement, i know) i wasted so much trying to imagine "What my face looked like before i was born". It ended up with me identifying with a hazy, imperceptible being - which really is just the mind trying to objectify God. But yeah all it takes to awaken is to allow the Koan to silence the mind. At that moment one is pure awareness. Took long enough to realize though. 

I like to think that Koans are tools for transcending the Mind.

[WelcometoReality]

9 hours ago, Consilience said:

Are you enlightened?

On one hand no. The small self doesn't awaken. You awaken from the small separate self. A recognition of what you truly are which is nothing. But not nothing. There is still a sense of beingness quality to this nothing. So on the other hand yes that is enlightened. 

8 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

what is the color of sound?

Seeing and hearing perceptions merges at the source so hearing and seeing becomes hearseeing. When looking at a red object and listening at music becomes redmusic. There is no distinction between them. The distinction between them happens afterwards.

9 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Intermediate level: What is the essence of enlightened expression through a tree?

It's an expression of the infinite nothing taking on treeing qualities.

[Forestluv]

@WelcometoReality@Consilience ? ♥️ 

[WelcometoReality]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@WelcometoReality? ♥️ 

Hmm I was expecting the zen stick. 

[WelcometoReality]

@Serotoninluv Do you know another one?

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

Hmm I was expecting the zen stick. 

I'm not very good at using a stick. I'm both a guide and being guided. Whenever I try to use a stick, it seems to cause a dynamic of division.

31 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

@Serotoninluv Do you know another one?

I just made those up. Nothing comes to mind right now. I'll reflect some today, perhaps another will arise.

[now is forever]

11 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Beginner level. . . 

Intermediate level: What is the essence of enlightened expression through a tree?

it fits in the palm of my hand.

[Forestluv]

44 minutes ago, now is forever said:

it fits in the palm of my hand.

An hour after reading this, I "got it" and started cracking up. Nice one. 

[tsuki]

15 hours ago, Consilience said:

Are you enlightened?

I have no business in calling myself enlightened.

14 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

One at a novice level: what is the color of sound?

Oh, I know that one! Attention.

Edited March 21, 2019 by tsuki

[WelcometoReality]

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I'm not very good at using a stick. I'm both a guide and being guided. Whenever I try to use a stick, it seems to cause a dynamic of division.

From a pedagogic standpoint that's probably a nice move.

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I just made those up. Nothing comes to mind right now. I'll reflect some today, perhaps another will arise.

Ah thanks. Do you mind me messaging you a question about the jhanas?

[Forestluv]

34 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Do you mind me messaging you a question about the jhanas?

Sure, that's fine. I don't have formal training in jhanas, yet have done a bit of work in concentration practice.