A Hypothetical Koan

[Consilience]

Are you enlightened?

[Highest]

8 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Are you enlightened?

If it means that you have gone trough spiritual awakening and are now conscious of God and that you are It, then yes.

If it means you have fully transcended the ego and body mind, then no. 

[Forestluv]

Beginner level. . . 

Intermediate level: What is the essence of enlightened expression through a tree?

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Highest said:

If it means that you have gone trough spiritual awakening and are now conscious of God and that you are It, then yes.

Getting warm. . . 

[Consilience]

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Beginner level. . . 

Intermediate level: What is the essence of enlightened expression through a tree?

Itself

... ?

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Itself

... ?

Nope. That answer went through a human filter.

[Forestluv]

One at a novice level: what is the color of sound?

Quality koans are post-intellectual. They exhaust the intellectual mind to the point of surrender at which point a post-intellectual insight arises. It’s not thought. It’s also not feeling. Yet closer to a feeling than thoughts.

The ones at begginner levels can somewhat be conveyed through thought. Yet I’d say intermediate and higher is full-on post-intellectual. 

I love watching the old crusty zen monks slap the faces of students that give intellectual answers.

[zambize]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Another one at entry intermediate level: what is the color of sound?

That's a good one

[Consilience]

40 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Nope. That answer went through a human filter.

Do you not see what “...” is pointing towards? It is referring to nothing which is the same as itself. The tree is nothing at all, but that is itself. But even these words are void of any real truth value. You saying nope as though there was ever a way to communicate an answer In the first place. A tree IS a tree, but what is that? What is it actually coming from and going to moment by moment? Nothing. And I cannot communicate what that means with words. So “...” is the best pointer I can give you. 

 

57 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Beginner level. . . 

Intermediate level: What is the essence of enlightened expression through a tree?

And so there is no answer to your intermediate level question. The answer to that question is found in utter, still and infinite being. And to try and communicate what a tree actually is, is utterly impossible. Which is the point of this question: are you enlightened? If an answer arises, its already incorrect. The question is a paradox. There is no answer which is *precisely* the answer, just as is your question about the tree. Me giving you an answer with words already misses the point. There is no answer, only then will you actually see what a tree* is 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Consilience

[Nahm]

What truth can extinguish life?

 

[Joseph Maynor]

I love it!

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor Damn. That’s a deep one. Seriously. 

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Joseph Maynor Damn. That’s a deep one. Seriously. 

Here's a Koan I wrote a few days ago:

What is Enlightenment?  Make paper airplane and throw off roof. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor Still reeling in the bottomless fall of I love it. 

[Consilience]

18 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I love it!

?

[Forestluv]

21 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Do you not see what “...” is pointing towards? It is referring to nothing which is the same as itself. The tree is nothing at all, but that is itself. But even these words are void of any real truth value. You saying nope as though there was ever a way to communicate an answer In the first place. A tree IS a tree, but what is that? What is it actually coming from and going to moment by moment? Nothing. And I cannot communicate what that means with words. So “...” is the best pointer I can give you. 

That is from a human approach. Set all that aside and connect with the tree. Become humble and surrender your humanness. Allow the tree to become your teacher. Communicate with the tree. She may reveal to you an essence of post-human enlightenment. Ime, this takes a deep level of openness, humility and surrender. Then grace may arise. Or maybe not. 

One cannot approach this as a human. That is why I consider it to be at an intermediate level. 

[Forestluv]

40 minutes ago, Consilience said:

And so there is no answer to your intermediate level question. The answer to that question is found in utter, still and infinite being. And to try and communicate what a tree actually is, is utterly impossible.

This is very far away.

There is a whole realm you are missing. There appears to be an underlying belief here that trees cannot communicate with you. This is a form of humanism that will block a human from entering this realm. 

[Consilience]

 

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is very far away. There is a whole realm you are missing.

You genuinely think such a realm can be communicated with words? Interesting. 

I guess I dont see a point in trying to define being into words. If you dont see what “..” is pointing towards, Im not sure what to say. 

[Consilience]

A direct experience of truth cannot be communicated with words. Unfortunately there is no correct answer with words, only through direct experience. 

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Consilience said:

 

You genuinely think such a realm can be communicated with words? Interesting. 

I guess I dont see a point in trying to define being into words. If you dont see what “..” is pointing towards, Im not sure what to say. 

No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. 

This is contracted within the human dynamic. Surrender all of this. Surrender your humanness and become teachable. Sit by an old tree and allow her wisdom to teach you. 

Transcending the personal self is insufficient for this. One must also transcend the human level. That is why I consider it to be an internediate level. 

There are many modes of communication. The modes can be integrated. Intuitive, empathetic, verbal modes etc can be integrated. 

I communicated this essence with a high level Native American woman by combining energetic fields with empathy and two verbal words said in a certain way. She knew exactly what I was conveying and I also knew she knew by receiving.

This stuff about pointers and not being able to communicate is early development at the higher levels. There are powerful wands of communication at higher levels.