If Osho was Enlightned Why Did he end up addicted to various drugs?

[pluto]

No one can be Fully Enlightened and be here at the same time, you must have ego to interact here thus by interacting you sacrifice absolute infinity/total enlightenment for almost absolute infinity(shall we say) and the more you interact, the further away you reside from source awareness.

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao

- Lao Tzu

Edited March 21, 2019 by pluto

[Jkris]

@Preetom @Preetomhe@ was addicted to Nitrous oxide much before the arrest. 

 

[Preetom]

3 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@Preetom @Preetomhe@ was addicted to Nitrous oxide much before the arrest. 

 

Maybe he was fond of laughing?  

[mandyjw]

@Shin Are you saying that someone can be enlightened and still completely blind to unenlightened or even extremely damaging social constructs? 

[mandyjw]

Psychopathy and enlightenment share a lot of characteristics. Part of the work of deconstructing the ego is realizing that in a way, only you exist, in a way, only your perceptions are real, there is no good and bad and you learn to go about your path and not care what other people think.

If you practice and integrate those realizations without understanding the paradoxical flip side of them, you'll be a self made psychopath. The psychopath only cares about himself and so to realize that he's a psychopath he has to acknowledge the existence of others. So he proclaims himself a god, or master. 

Enlightenment is an experience of love and connection, enlightenment is the pure essence of love itself. Anyone who does not act out of love is caught in the mind. Anyone who tries to sell you a future hope of salvation and tells you are not worthy as you are right now of the kingdom of god is a false teacher. 

 

 

[Shin]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Shin Are you saying that someone can be enlightened and still completely blind to unenlightened or even extremely damaging social constructs? 

I can only assume here, because I'm not presently aware of the Truth.

But from what I understood from all the teachers I studied from,

Enlightenment is only the Truth about what you are existentially speaking, it does not change the person point of view about anything but that.

It doesn't even happen to a person, because that would imply there is someone to be aware of something, which can't be the Truth, because the Truth is one indivisible whole.

 

[mandyjw]

@Shin

I'm sure you've experienced moments of enlightenment in meditation or life. Would you have been capable of harming another person or following through on an addiction in those moments of connection and awareness? In those moments would you not have felt yourself as completely one with anyone else around you, or if not around you would have felt no awareness of their existence other than a prevailing connection of love with life? Would you have felt any lack whatsoever that would make you seek out some substance?

If enlightenment is a perpetual state of being and no self, either these people aren't enlightened or we have to redefine out terms and say everyone is enlightened. 

Of course Nahm is right, no one is enlightened except you. Paradoxically everyone is enlightened. 

That means stop caring about Osho or any guru you think is enigmatic, go visit some old person in a nursing home or go into hospice care and spend time with ordinary people without wanting anything whatsoever from them, and having absolutely no expectations whatsoever and you'll get far more out of it. 

The idea of a master or guru is an egoic projection. Every single person you encounter is a teacher because the teacher and student are one. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by mandyjw

[Dumb Enlightened]

9 minutes ago, Shin said:

I can only assume here, because I'm not presently aware of the Truth.

But from what I understood from all the teachers I studied from,

Enlightenment is only the Truth about what you are existentially speaking, it does not change the person point of view about anything but that.

It doesn't even happen to a person, because that would imply there is someone to be aware of something, which can't be the Truth, because the Truth is one indivisible whole.

 

But the person kinda understands what is going on, kinda like " Well, so I am not what I thought I was, everything is one, so I guess I can relax a little, I don't need to worry and be stressed that much" the person sees that it is an expression of the one, or a vessels' through which life is experiencing itself, so all those survival instincts start to go way, and the mind programming starts to change to adapt to this new knowledge

After the awakenings I had I don't feel like doing most of the things that I used to do, like worrying about stuff and etc...

Why would I disrespect other person or be mean to them If I know that they are the same consciousness,

All the bad behaviors I think they come from the sense of self identification. so when it goes way they start to go too. Behavior change is not the consequence of awakening but a byproduct of it I think. The person does not NEED to be loving and good, but there's nothing that makes you act otherwise, but yes the old programming takes time to change I guess.

[tecladocasio]

26 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Psychopathy and enlightenment share a lot of characteristics.

Are you a psychopath or enlightened ?@mandyjw

[mandyjw]

@tecladocasio I can be enlightened, I can be a psychopath and I can be a self-conscious ego depending on my state of awareness at any given moment. I am nothing but a carrier of potential for none and all manifestations of ego including it's absence. 

You must know that you are capable of the dark side in order to choose the light side. Both are always with you. 

 

[mandyjw]

No one who is enlightened can ever really claim to be enlightened without being the devil. Because that means they took their eye of their dark side and denied it. Which means that's what's actually driving and controlling them. 

[JohnnyBravo]

@SQAAD

He took opiates in his final years, post being poisoned and murdered in jail.

It simply was pain management. End of story.

Source: from an Osho disciple I know personally. A direct disciple. And this disciples Sanyasin mother was Oshos chef.

Edited March 21, 2019 by JohnnyBravo

[tecladocasio]

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

I can be enlightened, I can be a psychopath and I can be a self-conscious ego depending on my state of awareness at any given moment.

@mandyjw  But enlightenment has nothing to do with your state of awareness, because it's not a state hahah . Ego is what is false , illusion , what remains is the truth , enlightenment . 

[mandyjw]

@tecladocasio It has everything to do with awareness, or consciousness might be a better word. And it both is and is not a state. At a point these discussions become completely nonsensical, because every single word you can choose is of course NOT IT. 

For example you just created a duality between your conceptualization of ego and enlightenment, true and false. NOT IT.

My head hurts. I need to go stare out the window in my enlightened state. lol

 

[tecladocasio]

53 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

For example you just created a duality between your conceptualization of ego and enlightenment, true and false. NOT IT.

Yes , of course . That's the nature of language .

[tsuki]

23 hours ago, SQAAD said:

I don't claim that enlightened people are perfect or anything like that BUT i just don't understand why someone who is truly enlightened would end up indulging in drugs and etc . 

Osho's body may have been addicted prior to enlightenment, or his personality may have had tendencies to indulge in it.
Unless he worked on changing that - nothing would change during any of his enlightenments.

[SoonHei]

@SQAAD If Osho was Enlightned Why Did he end up addicted to various drugs?

 

A character will play out his/her part as it was meant to be.

A movie actor, acts out the same lines as written in the script... Now it doesn't matter if he does that while he has lost himself in his character or is consciously acting out his role as an actor portraying the character.

In other words, expecting a certain type of behavior from someone who is "enlightened" is a groundless belief... (just like any belief ) 

[Shin]

 

????

[Nahm]

22 hours ago, Juan Cruz Giusto said:

I recommend treating it as totally different subjects. On the one side we have the Absolute or Enlightenment, and on the other hand, we have the relative or mind. Although being enlightened can affect your mind in some way or another, it is not always the case.

Enlightened people still have a mind and need to survive - they are just conscious of Ultimate Reality, nothing more and nothing else.

What is that, Ultimate reality? 

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

@Nahm Reality beyond perception, mind, and distinction. What is ultimately, absolutely and objectively true about Reality and You.