Skipping the ‘Pickup’ phase

[flowboy]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

How is possibly creepier to meet women at a yoga class if men do yoga too! Do you mean you'd feel like you were a creep, which is an insecurity or do you mean to say that women feel too insecure to have men at their yoga classes? 

You misunderstand. If you are already doing yoga, that's fine. But if you start doing it just because you're hoping that you can get together with one of the 12 women in the class, can you not see how weird that is?

When at a yoga class, I expect people to be there for the yoga. And if you're looking to relate and connect, well, you can do that anywhere, but the designated places are social environments like bars. There, it's normal to be looking to meet people. And it would be weird to avoid that environment, if you are.

[mandyjw]

15 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Au contraire. Pickup makes you vulnerable and grow as a person like nothing else. You seem to believe it's easy. It's emotionally the hardest thing most people will ever do.

Might I refer you to this topic:

And if you still think it's easy, and a cop out, I encourage you to go out and try for yourself. Put yourself out there. Get rejected again and again and again. Remain vulnerable and open. Try to not grow from that, that will be hard

ANYTHING challenging you try or feel inspired to put everything into is the best environment for developing awareness. You think marriage or raising kids with someone is easy? Or putting all your focus into a business not knowing whether or not it will work or fail? There are all kinds of challenges that can grow a person. I'm not discounting pick up I'm just saying that for many people there are going to be much higher ROI challenges than pick up. 

Some people love having casual sex and connections without commitment or clinging. There's something beautiful about it. But there's a cost. 

Some people love having a committed relationship and being able to focus on building their life and business and personal growth in other areas. There's something beautiful about it. But there's a cost.

NEITHER scenario will make you truly happy. BOTH scenarios will make you realize that you are the only person who can make you happy.

The only thing I'm trying to challenge here is the OP's question of whether or not pick up is necessary step. It's not. 

Figure out who you are and know what you want and then you'll know what steps to take. 

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by mandyjw

[flowboy]

42 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

The only thing I'm trying to challenge here is the OP's question of whether or not pick up is necessary step. It's not. 

And how is OP supposed to find that person to have a relationship with?

Exactly.

[flowboy]

The library example is even worse. Imagine how that conversation would go when the girl asks:

"By the way, what are you doing here"

Now he has two choices. He can lie and say he's looking for a book. THAT's what I consider manipulative.

Or he can go: "Oh, I'm just here to meet girls.."

> "Okay then...?

> Why don't you just go to a bar for that? I'm here to read."

"Because mandyjw said that that can't lead to something real."

[mandyjw]

It's really easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the path that was right for you and the steps that you took to get there are right for everyone else. Leo has fallen into that trap with his advice and so have I and most of the rest of us. That's why some of the things I say are judgey even though I'm trying to be open minded. We can only give advice from our own limited experiences and perspective. That kind of advice can only be helpful to a point. 

The only real personal development is to find your inner voice and know what's right for you. That and to have faith in life and acceptance and appreciation for what it brings you. Going around trying to make things happen all the time gets old and empty really fast.  That's why so many of us have looked to mindfulness and meditation.

Life is short and you can only pursue so many things to the best of your ability so you have to pick wisely and know which are the right ones for you. 

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, flowboy said:

And how is OP supposed to find that person to have a relationship with?

Exactly.

Yoga. 

Just kidding. 

Sort of. 

My real answer is just go about your life focusing on the things you love and the things you find fulfilling and the right relationship will come to you. Go to social settings and events for things you're interested in to meet people and further your social development. Don't go just to meet girls. Go for the yoga. Or whatever it is. 

But if you really have to go to a place for the purpose of meeting girls, you can also be a lot more creative about that if you want to be.

 

[mandyjw]

10 minutes ago, flowboy said:

The library example is even worse. Imagine how that conversation would go when the girl asks:

"By the way, what are you doing here"

Now he has two choices. He can lie and say he's looking for a book. THAT's what I consider manipulative.

Or he can go: "Oh, I'm just here to meet girls.."

> "Okay then...?

> Why don't you just go to a bar for that? I'm here to read."

"Because mandyjw said that that can't lead to something real."

I doubt anyone would ask. And if someone said they came to library to meet girls, that would be the perfect answer and if I was interested, I would find that charming and/or hilarious and also a great opening or incentive for me to start a conversation and find out if he was just kidding or not and ask him to have coffee. Maybe I'm weird. Of course some libraries would not be good, like I said it's really stupid example but you get what I'm trying to say. 

 

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

We can only give advice from our own limited experiences and perspective. That kind of advice can only be helpful to a point. 

Wholeheartedly agree!

Must say I have enjoyed this comparing views with an intelligent being. Thank you!

[JohnnyBravo]

Just want to say, for me learning pickup was a comfort zone nuclear bomb.

If you persist with pickup, one thing zi noticed is that you are forced to break comfort zones constantly without it feeling like a tabboo or big deal.

Your personalitu shifts to an ADVENTURER OF LIFE rather than a spectating shadow sitting mushroom.

Beyond pickup, keep this adventurer approach to life afterwards.

[RawJudah]

@Moreira So by learning social dynamics, you mean the red pill?

I'm always confused about the red pill. Leo says its toxic, when I look at it, it seems completely logical.

Whats the right answer there???

[RawJudah]

@JohnnyBravo That sounds tempting, but I kinda want that adventurer life without having to manipulate girls to have sex with me.

I know it can be done. 

Maybe travelling? I suppose travelling would force me out of my comfort zone because I'm in a different country on my own, which would lead me to force myself to talk to people. 

I dunno. This whole topic of pickup just frustrates me. (maybe that's why I should pursue it, because it pisses me off)

[JohnnyBravo]

Rawjudah,

Judas was the only son in his family that rose above a lineage of unfair power and spoiled chauvenisitc mind.

Judas sleeps with Tamer, whom was actually a prostitute but lied to Judas.

There is great significance in your user name. And the similarity of story of ancient Judah is the solution and narrative to your dilemma.

Dear Rawjudah, after Judah had a child with Tamer, only afterwards did he reassess who he was and his Inner Essence. It is only then we see him do a heroic act of saving a brother of his in a sacrificial manner; the first good deed of his family to perform.

So the transformation with you begins with the physical woman. You wish to Self actualise, but no you dont not really. It is an artifical longing you have; it is fashionable. Maybe you had strict parents that encouraged you to attain the best and now you are trying do that in self help.

But deep down, you know this pursuit of yours for God is phony. You secretly desire power, material. Sex. You did not mention a girlfriend, you mentioned sex.

And Judah was initiated into his Godliness BECAUSE of a sexual act. The sexual act led to a chain of events that brought him to his proper path.

Once you are on your proper path, the journey to God might begin.

For now, IT WILL NEVER BEGIN! You are disrespectful in your pursuit of God now, because you are not sincerely ready for it nor even want it.

.....However, after the experience of sex and women, your journey definitly will begin. It is an inevitable destiny for you.

Go for your desire. Attain sex in many ways. I will pray for you to have sex. Because in having sex, the sooner you will sober up and gain a new horniness, a horniness that a woman cannot relief you for;

The horniness for God.

[flowboy]

@JohnnyBravo  Wow... I'm speechless

[Dorotheus]

@mandyjw hohoho, you have no idea. Hahahahaha. I totaly get your perspective, but now i am going to give you a perspective of a typical men who is involved in pickup. Just imagine the following scenario:

You are a guy in youre early 20s. Youre whole life your parents told you: " when you want to attract a girl, be nice and be yourself and spent time with her." You have been doing just that and had little succes while youre friends are having sex with the hottest girls. You are beginning to think: " what are they doing differantly". On partys with youre social circle you spent the entire night with one girl and you are doing things slowly. You text her, chat with her and hear her bullshit. The party is over and you go home. You really like this girl. Think about her. You are falling in love. Thinking that things are going good.

Then youre friend comes along the next day and starts talking about the party last night and that he had sex with youre girl. You listen, are even laughing and fist bumping him. But from the inside you are crying. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. This is the moment when it is done, something snaps. This is the moment pickup revealse itself. YOU ARE DONE WITH THE BULLSHIT, WILLING TO DO EVERYTHING. You start looking over the internet and you see these douchbags saying how to attract girls which is against everything you are told. You are curious and want to test it because you are in so much pain. 

You go out with youre friend. You see all these beautiful girls who are very intimidating. You cant approach. You go home. You cry. HARD.

You dont know what to do, you are hopeless. Nobody is going to help you and girls from youre class and social circle dont pay attention go to you.

NOW YOU ARE REALLY DONE WITH IT. You just go the fuck for it. You go with youre friend again but now you are going to approach. You do. BLOWOUT. The girl saids: " We are lesbian, fuck off creep". You go home early while leaving youre friend. You Crie the entire night.

You get the idea now, okay. This is the reason most men are involved in pickup. Most of these guys are NOT pimps or sex addicts. They are wounded, insecure and very frustrated. THIS IS WHAT I WANT YOU TO GET. If these guys didnt took neurotic action they would die a virgin. 

And yes it is weird to pickup, but what is the alternative for this example.

Peace

 

 

 

[Arcangelo]

Pick up is my lifestyle. I have been doing pick up before the term pick up came up. I am always in pick up mode.

Is do or die for me now.

5 hours ago, Dorotheus said:

You just go the fuck for it.

Exactly!

 

[mandyjw]

14 hours ago, Dorotheus said:

@mandyjw You text her, chat with her and hear her bullshit.

 

 

 

And there's where you went wrong. The whole time you were listening she knew that you thought what she cared about was bullshit. Which is why you're not ready for an actual relationship. You're too self absorbed and care only about getting your own needs met. That's why girls you know in real life don't pay any attention to you.

The problem that could be addressed first is the wounded, insecure, frustrated part. You can fix those things with personal development and mindfulness, read Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now, some RSD coaches even recommend his book strangely enough. 

Also do you guys realize what happens magically as you get into your late 20's and beyond? All of a sudden there are a lot less girls your age looking for just sex and a lot more that want a committed relationship. Those women will care a lot about your job, your work ethic and very, very little about your sexual history, in fact the less women you've been with the better, even if that's no women. You're the only one turning your lack of sexual experience into a huge problem. 

But I get it, you want what you want now and pick up gives a way or at least a hope of getting it. Also our culture is uncaring and materialistic in a lot of ways, and women treat men horribly and have no compassion for them and men only care about women for how they look and whether or not they put out and the problem perpetuates itself. 

 

[mandyjw]

21 hours ago, flowboy said:

Wholeheartedly agree!

Must say I have enjoyed this comparing views with an intelligent being. Thank you!

Me too, thanks!  

[Shin]

9 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Pick up is my lifestyle. I have been doing pick up before the term pick up came up. I am always in pick up mode.

Is do or die for me now.

Exactly!

 

And are you happy ?

[Lynnel]

On 20/03/2019 at 6:54 PM, RawJudah said:

@Arcangelo I know, they are the comments I am talking about.

I just need to know if its a good idea to 'skip stage orange' and go straight to 'stage green'

I think I have the answers now, I will certainly talk to girls and flirt with them here and there, but I wont be doing pickup. Its too creepy for me, there's something about it that I don't like. I mean, I'm actually looking for a girlfriend that I can share deep connections with, not dating and shagging 200 women before a certain year.

I just needed to know if I was alone in thinking this way...

Oh boy.

Remember : the usual critique of pick up is simply stage blue conditioning.

You know why pick up is found creepy ? Because in blue patriarcal societies women are treated as commodities. You're a strong man, you go to war, you have of this going for you - of course you can just fucking grab a girl and get her to marry you. Lord. From this perspective pick up looks as if you were training yourself to grab a piece of cheesecake on the table - of fucking course it sounds creepy as fuck.

Don't be confused here : most society is still built on blue conditionning and very neurotic morals with repressed sexuality. Nonetheless some core value such as strong manhood have mostly detiriorated and have had trouble evolving into higher stages. Still, the conditionning is extremely intense : there is still a LOT of blue in your societies.

Leo's critique of pick up is coming from a very high perspective which is most likely completely irrelevant for most of this forum.

Skipping stages does not work because you're simply lying to yourself and you're gonna be miserable.

No one nowadays want to get girls because it hurts to be rejected, basically you just find excuses to avoid pain : due to becoming a better man, figuring out your conditionning, etc.

Everyone will just mentally masturbate about how this or that - and never get laid. Excuses are easy.

Like oh my god my life would be actually so much worse if I got to experience sex with a model oh my god like horrible all my spiritual pursuits are doomed forever !

For god's sake : solve your basic needs. Most of people aren't even going to reach turquoise in their lifetimes so focus on getting to the next stage first and don't worry about advanced spiritual shit after. Leo should actually have warning's about that because he's so advanced it's actually impossible to really grasp from an average standpoint how advanced he actually is.

Last thing, let me bloooow your mind :

On 21/03/2019 at 5:27 PM, RawJudah said:

I just hate the idea of using and controlling people, especially girls. I know how emotional they are.

Oh no. You would LOVE it. Of course you would. Simply blue conditionning is stopping you. You would not be averse to the idea otherwise. When you evolve to higher stages you'll realize it's perfectly fine and you will choose not to do it out of compassion.

Before compassion the whole morality gig is just a neurotic virus.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Lynnel

[Arcangelo]

4 hours ago, Shin said:

And are you happy ?

My mom told me from the very beginning: -''Son, happiness does not exist. The only things that exist are happy moments'' She could/should have added: -''Just make sure to have more happy moments than unhappy ones''

Pick up gives me happy moments, in the sense that i feel that i did everything in my power to achieve certain goal.

Pick up gives me happy moments, because it is an adventure.

Pick up gives me happy moments because it makes me feel alive.

Pick up gives me happy moments, because when i am afraid to go talk to a girl but i do it anyways i feel like a real fucking man. That's the best.

And so on and so on....

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Arcangelo
Mandy