Skipping the ‘Pickup’ phase

[RawJudah]

@Shin I've been thinking about that too. 

Escorts too maybe?

How low can I go? lol

Fuck sake!

[flowboy]

17 minutes ago, RawJudah said:

I just hate the idea of using and controlling people, especially girls. I know how emotional they are.

Nah, this is based on incorrect social conditioning (from parents? culture?) that girls don't crave sex as much as you do. They do.

Also mainstream and Hollywood say that spontaneous sex with no strings attached hurts women, because "they are emotional".

If you go find out for yourself, you'll see that the opposite is truer. Girls crave sex. They are longing for a guy that can be cool and not make a big deal about it, and satisfy their needs without making them feel judged or ashamed about it. Then, after sex, they are hoping, no, PRAYING that the guy won't get clingy, needy and emotional on her, and want to see her again immediately or cry about how "she's insensitive" otherwise.

4 minutes ago, RawJudah said:

Escorts too maybe?

Real people are on dating apps man! Tinder is normal

Again, you seem to be judgmental of people on dating apps seeking sex. Like there's something wrong with that. And I understand where you get that judgment, it's just in our culture.

Try to see how much this judgment of sexuality is fucking you up;

1.  This 'wanting sex is bad' idea prevents you from going out looking for people to have relations with. Its getting in the way of you giving yourself permission to be on Tinder, and talking to girls in a bar. It's preventing you from making yourself happy, basically.
2. If you hold the belief that casual sex is bad, you also screw over all the girls you will meet. They won't feel safe to be open with their own sexuality with you, and admit their desires. Instead, they will feel this judgment and tension from you and will instinctively close up and feel like they have to pretend to be a nice innocent nonsexual creature.

16 minutes ago, RawJudah said:

Both of you are right. I literally crave sex pretty much all of the time, I just can't see at this moment in time how pickup is a good idea. 

I know Leo has said to have enough sex so we don't crave it anymore and we can go into higher consciousness, it has just taken me by surprise how important that shit actually is. 

Maybe I'm being too much of a 'nice guy'. Maybe I should try and be more 'alpha' 

You'll be alright Just you have a lot of cultural beliefs in you that you need to shed, in order to be happy and relate to girls better.

I'm not saying you have to go learn tricks. Just go out and meet people. Date one of them. Immediately you will see that this is a real person, that gets to meet you thanks to your efforts, and the entire "manipulative pickup" idea will melt away.

I strongly recommend the book No More Mr Nice Guy by dr. Robert Glover, as well as RSDMax - The Natural .

Best of luck

Edited March 21, 2019 by flowboy

[Shin]

Just now, RawJudah said:

@Shin I've been thinking about that too. 

Escorts too maybe?

How low can I go? lol

Fuck sake!

Fuck a lot,

But also read, meditate and inquire why pleasure is an endless seeking.

Do that for like a few months, then stop completely and don't have sex, watch porn, fap and ejaculate at all,

And see if there is a difference.

[JohnnyBravo]

@RawJudah

After reading through this again, and whilst I stand by my anti-pickup views and am attached to them,

I dont feel you benefit from them at all right now, or only grasp it superficially. Im judging this based on your responses and imaginations.

For this one, I agree with @flowboyand @Shin. Only I take it a step further.

No escorts. No tinder.

Go learn and practise some hardcore, mainstream pickup. This will be YOUR path (for now).

and then some escorts and Tinder. And Im not joking.

Thats it for me on this one.

[RawJudah]

@JohnnyBravo I understand. 

As shallow and pathetic as it sounds, I just want lots of sex. I've been putting it off for too long now, and I know I have to do it.

I will date and do pickup. I've found a potential wingman near me, and I will be hitting the streets of London. I want to do daytime too, I will also be doing nights out but I wont be drinking alcohol, I feel that drinking lowers my vibe and of others around me, in fact I fucking hate the stuff.

I need to get it out of my horny needy system.

Thank you once again. 

 

[flowboy]

36 minutes ago, RawJudah said:

As shallow and pathetic as it sounds, I just want lots of sex. I've been putting it off for too long now, and I know I have to do it.

Hey, congratulations man!!! It took me 3 psychedelic trips, many tantra workshops and two failed relationships to be able to admit that to myself!

I suppose that's why I responded so passionately

[mandyjw]

@RawJudah Do you just want sex or do you want sex with several random people? A relationship brings more sex. The point of pick up is to still get sex without relationships.

[Moreira]

It depends of what you want from life. Im 35 yo and dont have a girfriend, nor even date them. And I dont become crazy without female affection, love or sex.

But if you want to date girls or have a gf youll need to learn pickup because things dont work like in the movies, society lied to you.

I dont mean to manipulate negatively, but you should know how attraction and sociual dynamics works.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Moreira

[SunnyNewDay]

I want to improve my dating life and meet more women and have more sex. I think it's normal. I've tried making it a top priority for me but it really triggered me and blew me out and put me on a break from dating for months. Not sure why it happened exactly but I have a lot of built up stuff regarding dating and women. I'm not really sure how to go about it since getting my toes back in really sets me off. I think I have so much anxiety and negative stuff built up around this topic. I want to burst this bubble though. I also want to enjoy the process. I think learning attraction, dating and meeting women should be fun not some overly technical thing. I'm fine with it being perhaps a bit uncomfortable and awkward and I'm fine with not always knowing what to do but I can't stand how demoralizing and boring it can be. I think I need to heal different aspects of myself along with trying to work on this domain. Anyone have a similar experience as me? One where you have take time off and feel really emotional and raw about growing in this domain?

[flowboy]

@SunnyNewDay  I was turned off as well by the Mystery Method. Tricks in the book worked but it didn't feel like me so I couldn't keep it up.

Then I got into RSD. They basically teach how to be your authentic self with people and have it work. That feels much better to me.

7 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Do you just want sex or do you want sex with several random people? A relationship brings more sex. The point of pick up is to still get sex without relationships.

@mandyjw That's not accurate. The point of pickup is to meet people. To do either option with. Relationships start with sex too before they get serious, in case you hadn't noticed. And getting in a good relationship is even harder than just getting a casual date, but it starts the same, so I'm not sure what your point is here.

[Gabriel Antonio]

I agree with @JohnnyBravo

From my experience, pickup theory can do more harm than good. 

[JohnnyBravo]

Women and men are not books.

Children are not books.

Do not 'approach' women. Meet them and invite a connection.

Warning. The real feminine will burn away all bullshit you hold onto. Including theory 

But if pickup theory helps to get on the path, then by all means, it has merit in this 

[KyleR]

What’s wrong with being authentic and adding value to the girls you approach? Mechanical pick up might be a bit sketchy but if nobody is harmed, what’s the big deal?

I’m definitely not talking from experience btw, the last few weeks I’ve only been out three times with 6 miserable approaches, but finally found some local wings. Great to see some live action instead of the YouTube videos and be motivated by these guys, however I couldn’t help feel it was all wrong when I was walking home. Is it because I’ve failed and the fear is still high? Or is it the day game vibe in general? I dunno, bit of both, it’s definitely not normal and I suck atm?

I’ll be trying night soon too, sober! And it’s all learning anyway, right? I’m sure the 600th will be better than the 6th! The initial goals are to build confidence, overcome approach anxiety and express better communication whilst being authentic. Overall, I don’t think it’s a bad idea, but the rewards are massive growth from what I gather which transfers to many aspects of your life not just with girls. 

[mandyjw]

8 hours ago, flowboy said:

 

@mandyjw That's not accurate. The point of pickup is to meet people. To do either option with. Relationships start with sex too before they get serious, in case you hadn't noticed. And getting in a good relationship is even harder than just getting a casual date, but it starts the same, so I'm not sure what your point is here.

Some of the RSD skills are just to meet people and become more confident in groups or around the opposite sex. Those skills are great and can be used to form any kind of relationship you want. But isn't the point of pick up to pick up women? Even the term pick up implies that girls are something like inanimate objects that can just be picked up and dropped off. It implies that the point of the entire thing is self gratification. Relationships definitely do not have to start with sex, plenty of people have sex after they establish respect and mutual friendship. Sex is just one way of connecting with someone. 

My point is just that the OP should set his intention. Does he want to have one night stands, a series of short shallow relationships and sex with various different people or does he want a deeper connection with someone including sex? 

The reason it's important to know that beforehand is because women can sense your intentions, they know when they are being used, and that's going to dictate what type of woman you attract. If the only way you know how to get women is to attract women who only want sex and an ego boost of being desired by multiple men then that's the only type of woman you'll get. It's a lot easier to teach someone how to attract a woman like that and a lot harder to try to teach someone how to form a deeper connection with someone. 

 

[flowboy]

18 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

But isn't the point of pick up to pick up women? Even the term pick up implies that girls are something like inanimate objects that can just be picked up and dropped off.

I'm sorry that this is so offensive to you, but we're dealing with a culture that says men have to take the initiative, because women don't. So you have to teach some men how to do that, because most women won't.

Women help. They participate in the pickup. If they don't like it, they walk away. Use a different term if you like. But men usually have to lead it, you can't deny that.

I had the same discussion with my ex girlfriend. Going out to meet girls to her was offensive already, because she had a bad experience when she was younger, slept with a guy quickly and realised he only wanted sex from her, and it had seemed like so much more. There she felt used, so now in her world every man with the intention of leading a sexual interaction is a manipulator.

This is frustrating to me personally because, well, because women don't have to take the lead, most of them never realise what it's like to be a man and have to cut through all the bullshit you encounter, and that allows them to live in a reality where these experiences "just happen". Just happened by itself! No they didn't fucking just happen. And you will never realise how tough it is until you yourself go pick up women. Not men, they're easy. Women.

 

27 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

The reason it's important to know that beforehand is because women can sense your intentions, they know when they are being used, and that's going to dictate what type of woman you attract.

I agree that it's valuable to set your intention on what type of women you want to meet. But I disagree with you calling it "used", by which you apparently mean casual sex. That's so, so wrong. Wake up. Women want casual sex.

The idea that it's being used comes from the myth that a guy has to lie to the girl about his feelings and pretend it's the start of a relationship and it's not. This is nonsense. I mean, that's a bad idea and not necessary. It does happen, but that's just rotten apples with vulnerable inexperienced girls. These days, you can just mutually agree to have sex, no expectations. Because guess what, women are horny. Both parties happy. This is the 21st century.

[/rant]

Edited March 23, 2019 by flowboy

[mandyjw]

17 minutes ago, flowboy said:

I'm sorry that this is so offensive to you, but we're dealing with a culture that says men have to take the initiative, because women don't. So you have to teach some men how to do that, because most women won't.

That's a limiting belief. There are certain settings where this is true, like the bar/club/party scene setting, but it's not true of the world or women in general. How much sense does it make to go to a setting where there is the largest amount of competition for women and women KNOW that they are a commodity? Why not go to a library or a yoga class or where you'll be the only dude among a bunch of women? Why else, because you don't actually want a relationship but want to play a game. 

Pick up encourages you to go to specific settings, and do specific things to attract a specific type of woman. It's great because by being so specific you can teach other people skills in how to have success at it. It's not great because it's incredibly limiting, especially if you want something more than the results you're getting. If pick up makes you happy and fulfilled and you aren't hurting anyone, I can't judge. 

I took the initiative in my relationships when I was dating because the guys who did take initiative with me were not the type I would ever want. So I wanted a guy who was honestly interested in having intelligent conversations with me and I didn't care that meant that he was too shy to ask for more than that, because i could. Everyone, men and women should learn how to take initiative. 

 

 

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

 

I agree that it's valuable to set your intention on what type of women you want to meet. But I disagree with you calling it "used", by which you apparently mean casual sex. That's so, so wrong. Wake up. Women want casual sex.

The idea that it's being used comes from the myth that a guy has to lie to the girl about his feelings and pretend it's the start of a relationship and it's not. This is nonsense. I mean, that's a bad idea and not necessary. It does happen, but that's just rotten apples with vulnerable inexperienced girls. These days, you can just mutually agree to have sex, no expectations. Because guess what, women are horny. Both parties happy. This is the 21st century.

[/rant]

 

Ok, good point, plenty of women want casual sex too. But for both men and women looking to fulfill a need without having to do deeper work and encounter relationship challenges it can be a cop out. If you go into a relationship knowing it's casual there's no chance for real rejection. Pick up can be a way of getting needs met without ever having to open up emotionally, be vulnerable and grow as a person. Some people have to go through that stage before they are ready to tackle all that, other people are just ready for relationship without having to do it. It's not a necessary step for any guy to have to learn to get good at pick up. Getting stuck in pick up or doing it at all when you're already evolved enough to be able to handle a relationship can really hinder your growth. 

But again if it's fulfilling for both parties then I can't judge. 

[flowboy]

35 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Why not go to a library or a yoga class or where you'll be the only dude among a bunch of women?

• Because men don't read or do yoga? What the fuck? ?
• Some would actually consider it creepier to go to a yoga class just to meet women

39 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

That's a limiting belief. There are certain settings where this is true, like the bar/club/party scene setting, but it's not true of the world or women in general.

Nah, it's pretty accurate. I'm glad to hear you are an exception, don't get me wrong, but most women haven't evolved to that level.

 

40 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

How much sense does it make to go to a setting where there is the largest amount of competition for women and women KNOW that they are a commodity?

Because of the higher volume, the higher chance you'll meet someone you connect with. Yoga chicks go out too, you know. Even women who read also party, if you can believe that.

42 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Why else, because you don't actually want a relationship but want to play a game

Again, this eminates judgment about casual sex. What for? This value system of "relationship good, casual sex bad" is actually harmful. It's shaming women who may also want to be adventurous for a while.

44 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Pick up encourages you to go to specific settings, and do specific things to attract a specific type of woman.

Can you name an example? Maybe we're not talking about the same pickup.

45 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

So I wanted a guy who was honestly interested in having intelligent conversations with me

Again with the judgment. Sex and intelligent conversations can't go hand in hand? In my experience they do.

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, flowboy said:

• Because men don't read or do yoga? What the fuck? ?
• Some would actually consider it creepier to go to a yoga class just to meet women

 

 Ok, the library was a bad example. But I think you get what I'm trying to say. How is possibly creepier to meet women at a yoga class if men do yoga too! Do you mean you'd feel like you were a creep, which is an insecurity or do you mean to say that women feel too insecure to have men at their yoga classes? 

 

[flowboy]

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Pick up can be a way of getting needs met without ever having to open up emotionally, be vulnerable and grow as a person.

Au contraire. Pickup makes you vulnerable and grow as a person like nothing else. You seem to believe it's easy. It's emotionally the hardest thing most people will ever do.

Might I refer you to this topic:

And if you still think it's easy, and a cop out, I encourage you to go out and try for yourself. Put yourself out there. Get rejected again and again and again. Remain vulnerable and open. Try to not grow from that, that will be hard