You’re enlightened! So why are you still on this forum?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Joseph Maynor Yes I've also read statements like that in books (the bit with the menu and stuff). Let's see if our points of view actually disagree. I say that enlightenment is the beginning of God-realization. You are saying (perhaps jokingly, perhaps not) that enlightenment is "smell of freshly-baked cinnamon buns". In the latter case, is the smell separate from God? Isn't realizing this, God-realization?

You see what i've wrote in the signature area: "Relativity is implied. Shut up about it."

The issue is not so much that points of view are incompatible by their nature, but rather that we are unable to see compatibility. 

[FoxFoxFox]

By your logic, isn't what he is saying not just another pov?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Joseph Maynor What is it about? 

[WelcometoReality]

@Tony 845 The last oxherding picture is the oxherder going into the world again to relieve it from suffering. So doesn't it make sense for an enlightened being go back here and helping anyone on the path? ?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Joseph Maynor This is all mind game. Self-inquiry is 4th dimensional consciousness attempting to confine itself by logic. Let me show you a picture:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flammarion.jpg

You see that rainbow? It represents the moment of transition from 4th to 5th dimension. Whatever Eckhart is saying in that video, or what Ramana says with self-inquiry is applicable before that point.

It is true that enlightenment is in the now, and that you don't add enlightenment. It's always there.

But neither Ramana, or Eckhart talk about what comes next afterwards. What happens as your experience in the heart deepens? Language breaks down here. Whatever can be said, is a mere translation of experience into objective language which is never accurate.

But that doesn't mean things don't happen within enlightenment. So I say this again. It's the best of my ability: Enlightenment is the beginning of the process of God realization.

[FoxFoxFox]

@Joseph Maynor A perspective change is a good analogy. But hey, for me, it only began to become actual once I let my heart open. All Self-inquiry did was to dissolve identity a bit. I'd say its more dangerous than practical.

The experience of the heart opening is very physical and only occurs when your surrender. 

[ajasatya]

6 hours ago, Tony 845 said:

@ajasatya nice! May I ask how? Self inquiry? Mediation? 

zazen, self inquiry, hatha/kundalini yoga and ayahuasca.

[Highest]

@Tony 845 What makes someone enlightened? 

[FoxFoxFox]

@Joseph Maynor Actually, just for the sake of accuracy, let's phrase it like this: Ego-mind transcendence is synonymous with the heart opening. :) 

[nistake]

8 hours ago, zambize said:

I'm sorry but this made me laugh

"Edited 3 minutes ago by Tony 845 
Granmar"

Perfection

[Charlotte]

8 hours ago, zambize said:

I'm sorry but this made me laugh

"Edited 3 minutes ago by Tony 845 
Granmar"

?????????

[Markus]

@Tony 845 Ain't nobody here a Buddha. Some people with various degrees of insight and plenty of ego.

[Markus]

@Joseph Maynor Whether or not the Buddha was completely free of craving (the whole concept of nirvana and escaping the cycle of samsara would suggest he was), none of us are anywhere near him. 

[Markus]

33 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Oh yeah?  How do you know that?  That's just a belief in your Mind.  Or a better way of saying it is: that's just a belief that the Mind is clinging to.

Sure. I just don't see anything to suggest I'm wrong. I assume it because I see a lot of lack of understanding and craving in what people say, including myself. To give an example of a recent thing I noticed with myself, it is the amount of comfort and escapism that I've received from certain spiritual beliefs, such as the eternalness and timelessness of the self. Of course that's just an egoic mechanism. The ego takes the insight into emptiness, and claims "I am it, therefore I am eternal." And I see the same thing a lot here. Even a bit worse is people believing they're god, which seems pretty exclusive to people using psychedelics. Another thing is people throwing non-duality at people's legitimate emotional problems, as if that'll help them. I think there's a lot to the path people don't really grasp. They think they'll awaken and just not identify with their ego and that's that. I used to think like that. Didn't really work out though, because it ends up as self-deluding. There's no real selflessness and understanding of the perspective of others.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Markus

[Arhattobe]

@Joseph Maynor You know before you heard of non duality. You didn’t know about it, u might have thought well that’s just philosophy. Now ur a basic non dual state or had an awakening, and someone tells you about the eradication of craving.

The possibility seems so remote and your limited understanding clashes with it so you cling to your perspective. Which you might even think isn’t a perspective. It is, it was marked by a shift in experience, and the possibility of many further shifts exists. 

 

[Arhattobe]

@Joseph Maynor know of possibilities, modes of being you don’t know about maybe a better way of putting it. Not a piece of knowledge. The distinction matters, because we aren’t debating opinions.

Just saying the human physiology, system and experience can radically shift after one’s shift to non duality. A lot more development is possible. If you want to call it that. 

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 Same with the Buddha has no Ego that was used previously for the same purpose.

Don’t understand what you mean here though.

[Arhattobe]

@Joseph Maynor lol. I gave it a shot. Didn’t work. Let’s move on.

[Arhattobe]

@Joseph Maynor Tried to use reason to talk about possibilities your not open to, but you just went for the who has the belief shtick so I said nevermind. Let’s move on.

[Arhattobe]

@Joseph Maynor No, you are.... *while tearing up*

lol

[ajasatya]

@Joseph Maynor i don't know how sincere you are about this process, but you've been here for a while...

your intellectual pride is off the roof. i'm not saying that you're not smart. you're way smarter than me. i'm just saying that you cannot go very far if you're that attached to the intellect.

haven't you asked yourself why you get so triggered when someone claims to be more developed than you? what if i said that you're not enlightened, would you be able not to argue with me trying to prove otherwise?

just a tip from a friend.