Meaning of it all?

[Scholar]

I don't know why so many experienced meditators fail to see this simple truth. I can only repeat it over and over:

Nothing is meaningful but meaning itself.

From your framework it would probably be best put as:

Meaning is an experience like every other experience there is. Meaning is like pain. Meaning is like color. Meaning is like sound. Meaning is like thought.

Meaning is it's own experience. It is either there or it is not. It either is or it is not.

 

To ask "What is the meaning of existence" is literally the same as asking "What is the color of existence?", "What is the sound of existence?", "What is the pain of existence?", "What is the X of existence?".

The question is void. It is confusion. There is no color of existence. Rather, there is color in existence.

 

You got rid of the exprience of meaning, that's all. There is no realization of anything, you simply changed your experience. Meaning is as real as anything else could be. It is as much Isness as all else in existence. We just need to recognize it for what it is and stop conflating it with other aspects of realness, or with Isness as a whole.

[Aquarius]

@Scholar No no, you see I had an existential crisis. The forum members helped me out. You got my question wrong. I know what "-ism"-s are.

Thanks for the info though, you learn something new every day.

 

 

 

♫ overthinking overanalyzing separates the body from the mind....♫

[Scholar]

40 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

@Scholar No no, you see I had an existential crisis. The forum members helped me out. You got my question wrong. I know what "-ism"-s are.

Thanks for the info though, you learn something new every day.

 

 

 

♫ overthinking overanalyzing separates the body from the mind....♫

Yes, but the existential crisis is tied to how you look at the experience of meaning. This sort of crisis happens when there is a loss of the experience of meaning, suddenly actions seem "bland" because previously the experience of meaning was correlated to these other experiences.

This is not necessary, and more importantly it's not a true loss of meaning. You still attribute the negative feeling of meaninglessness (which is not the negation of meaning, but it's own form of meaning) to other experiences. "Oh but why does anything exist?"

The question is absurd. "Whyness" is it's own fascet of Isness. "Whyness" is an experience, so to speak. You are again confusing one experience and attempting to seek it in other experiences. It's like looking for sound in the color red. You will not find sound in the color red. In the color red you will only every find redness.

 

Isness just is, "Whyness" and "Meaning" exists within Isness. The irony is that once the ego construct is dissolve, meaning will be created and generated with no limitations. Right now meaning is only created when there is an experience which serves the egos survival. When ego is gone, meaning will be generated with no limitations, because there is no reason not to.

This then is confused by meditators to mean that "enlightenment" is meaningful. "Oh look how wonderful it is, this is the most meaningful experience there could possibly be!". But the experience itself is not meaning, only the experience of meaning which accompanies it is meaningful. This confusion even for the most experience meditators is to me astounding, because it implies a deeper unconsciousness of Isness, despite the ego-construct being dissolved.

[Forestluv]

@Scholar It appears you've had some deep realizations and breakthroughs recently. It's great to see. Nice work.  

[Scholar]

The experience of the enlightened is filled with love, meaning and joy because there is no construct which keeps the mind from letting these fascets of existence flow into the experience. On the way of the deconstruction of the ego, meaning is lost, namely the experience of meaning ceases to be generated. This is of course because the ego is constructed in a way so as to not find it's own deconstruction meaningful. If it was, it would not be stable. But, once ego is dissolved to a certain extend or even completely, meaning will flow back in an amount that is not limited, creating the illusion or delusion of "enlightenment being meaningful".

This is how one could look at it, and it is useful because it keeps us from falling into the typical nihilism, the "everything is meaningless" illusion which actually is just as "untrue" as the "everything is meaningful" illusion. Both don't see meaning as itself, both still conflate and mix different experiences together.

But we also must recognize that this mixture of different experiences is actually magical. It is wonderful in a way, because it is what allows us to say "It is wonderful". It is the magic of delusion, or understanding. It gives life an interconnectedness which should be impossible, because it creates "1=2". In that way, it created from 1 and 2 a new Isness, the Isness of "1=2". Notice how "1=2" is neither 1, nor 2. But it is still there.

 

@Serotoninluv

It is strange because I have not been meditating as much recently, it seems to however flow very naturally. It kind of motivates me to go back into some longer sessions of meditation. I am not quite sure if this is ego-deconstruction or something else. Recently I have been very accepting of my egoic desires and much less judgemental. For example, I viewed my animal rights desires as unconscious not that long ago, I would say to myself "Someone who was more developed than me would let go of the struggling against the suffering of others, someone who was more conscious was free himself of this suffering", but in a way I have done the opposite. I have accepted myself at where I am, if right now I feel a strong urge to be the unconscious vegan who is angry about animal suffering, than that's what I will accept and follow. I think Leo's explanations of Love have helped me with this, he is right that the "Loving"/"Jesus" path is more appealing and to me seemingly more natural than the Zen buddhist path. But in a weird way I now want to explore the more silent path again to see what I can discover with my new perspective.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Scholar

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Aquarius said:

I don't know. There is something beyond me that I sense that I cannot quite grasp. It just is. 

What is nondual can not be “grasped” in thought, because thinking is dual. 

What “just is” is you, awareness. Awareness = nondual. 

The “sense”, is sensation, you. Sensation is, here, now, in real time, live, present. 

If you continue to believe the thought “there is something beyond me”, you use it as a write off, a way of not inspecting the believe, a way of veiling from yourself that it is a belief. 

[Forestluv]

@Scholar To me, it looks like you are expanding beyond an intellectual/logical space. I'm curious. . . have you had some insights via direct experience that is hard to put into words?  

[Scholar]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Scholar To me, it looks like you are expanding beyond an intellectual/logical space. I'm curious. . . have you had some insights via direct experience that is hard to put into words?  

Yes, when I use the word "magical" it is usually referring to that. It's where contemplation just fails and there is a "recognition" of the impossibility and irreducability of Isness, but my mind does try to put it into frameworks, I don't really resist that.

It's not really this huge mind blowing experience though, it's more like a subtle shifting that has been going on for the past few months. It is hard to put into words, I feel like most of the things aren't really being communicated when I try to explain them.

[Aquarius]

You guys, I don't mental-masturbate anymore. I had realizations via direct experience and my English knowledge is weak so I'll just let you discuss. Point is, I found the answer to my question thanks to all of you. Cheers!

[DrewNows]

1 minute ago, Aquarius said:

You guys, I don't mental-masturbate anymore

I don't either, masturbation happens but there is no me 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Yes, when I use the word "magical" it is usually referring to that. It's where contemplation just fails and there is a "recognition" of the impossibility and irreducability of Isness, but my mind does try to put it into frameworks, I don't really resist that.

It's not really this huge mind blowing experience though, it's more like a subtle shifting that has been going on for the past few months. It is hard to put into words, I feel like most of the things aren't really being communicated when I try to explain them.

Nice. I found that to be an indicator of expansion. For a long time, I was trying to figure things out and explaining intellectually. For example, "What is ISness?". One may get into philosophical conceptualization creating constructs of what "ISness" is. This is a very different orientation than a post-intellectual direct experience of actual "ISness". I remember hiking through the woods and ISness revealing itself through direct experience. Afterwards I was like "How the fuck do I even begin to try to explain this"? I wanted ISness to explain itself through words, yet I kept fumbling around for words. I'd say "well it's sorta like this. Well, not quite. Kinda like this, but no that doesn't quite capture it either". 

[allislove]

2 hours ago, DrewNows said:

I don't either, masturbation happens but there is no me 

Haha, nice one.

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, Scholar said:

The experience of the enlightened is filled with love, meaning and joy because there is no construct which keeps the mind from letting these fascets of existence flow into the experience. On the way of the deconstruction of the ego, meaning is lost, namely the experience of meaning ceases to be generated. This is of course because the ego is constructed in a way so as to not find it's own deconstruction meaningful. If it was, it would not be stable. But, once ego is dissolved to a certain extend or even completely, meaning will flow back in an amount that is not limited, creating the illusion or delusion of "enlightenment being meaningful".

This is how one could look at it, and it is useful because it keeps us from falling into the typical nihilism, the "everything is meaningless" illusion which actually is just as "untrue" as the "everything is meaningful" illusion. Both don't see meaning as itself, both still conflate and mix different experiences together.

But we also must recognize that this mixture of different experiences is actually magical. It is wonderful in a way, because it is what allows us to say "It is wonderful". It is the magic of delusion, or understanding. It gives life an interconnectedness which should be impossible, because it creates "1=2". In that way, it created from 1 and 2 a new Isness, the Isness of "1=2". Notice how "1=2" is neither 1, nor 2. But it is still there.

 

@Serotoninluv

It is strange because I have not been meditating as much recently, it seems to however flow very naturally. It kind of motivates me to go back into some longer sessions of meditation. I am not quite sure if this is ego-deconstruction or something else. Recently I have been very accepting of my egoic desires and much less judgemental. For example, I viewed my animal rights desires as unconscious not that long ago, I would say to myself "Someone who was more developed than me would let go of the struggling against the suffering of others, someone who was more conscious was free himself of this suffering", but in a way I have done the opposite. I have accepted myself at where I am, if right now I feel a strong urge to be the unconscious vegan who is angry about animal suffering, than that's what I will accept and follow. I think Leo's explanations of Love have helped me with this, he is right that the "Loving"/"Jesus" path is more appealing and to me seemingly more natural than the Zen buddhist path. But in a weird way I now want to explore the more silent path again to see what I can discover with my new perspective.

It kind of sounds like you have deflated your ego. If that's what it is, in my experience the more you can stay in this state the more it will deflate. I always think of that song ...I can see clearly now the rain is gone. When you can calm the whirlwind of the Mind, truth starts revealing itself quickly.

I think you were describing between nothing and everything is... the still point of the Spiral.

when one decides that they will never give up and simultaneously they surrender at the same time. That's when things get real interesting.

That's awesome stuff!!

Edited October 1, 2019 by VeganAwake

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

It kind of sounds like you have deflated your ego. If that's what it is, in my experience the more you can stay in this state the more it will deflate. I always think of that song ...I can see clearly now the rain is gone. When you can calm the whirlwind of the Mind, truth starts revealing itself quickly.

I think you were describing between nothing and everything is... the still point of the Spiral.

Your message brought to mind the interplay between contraction and expansion - back and forth. Then the image of an accordion appeared. . . 

[VeganAwake]

On 3/18/2019 at 5:31 AM, Aquarius said:

I am really curious if anything really has a meaning. Nothing seems to have a meaning. Why do we do anything? What is the point? Why do people do anything? I think I am missing something here. Everything seems meaningless, every action, every word. 

What is it all about? What's the point of it all? Everybody seems so content and focused on something, and always doing something, and always striving, but for what are they striving? If they get those things, what will happen? For example someone being born, studying all their life then working all their life then getting money then buying things and then dying. It's absurd! 

Why are we born in the first place? Why are we forced to achieve and develop anything? For what do we live? Why was the world even created? What is this??

What is anything?

I keep thinking about this for some time, I would be glad if someone explained, thank you. 

Maybe we are the universe experiencing itself. It's a natural unfolding process. I find peace in accepting what is. I've always liked this quote from A Course in Miracles: " Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists, herein lies the peace of God".

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

Your message brought to mind the interplay between contraction and expansion - back and forth. Then the image of an accordion appeared. . . 

Yes that still point in the center of the accordion that does not move. That is where the permanent self or true self resides.( which is the essence of existence) An awakened individual can still dabble in the impermanence expansion and contraction, but their heart resides in the center. And they are aware of that fact.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, VeganAwake said:

Yes that still point in the center of the accordion that does not move. That is where the permanent self or true self resides.( which is the essence of existence) An awakened individual can still dabble in the impermanence expansion and contraction, but their heart resides in the center. And they are aware of that fact.

Some nice imagery ? ♥️ 

[Aquarius]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:23 PM, DrewNows said:

I don't either, masturbation happens but there is no me 

Lmaoo  

 

[erik8lrl]

Love. Infinite Love.