Your development is measured by your weakest link.

[CreamCat]

Let's say that I'm an Orange asshole. However, I'm weak as Orange. I'm weak from Orange down to Beige. Am I even Beige if I screw my sleep schedule and food consumption over and over?

The lesson from Beige is the importance of food and sleep and meditation. The lesson from Purple is the importance of family and friends.

That of Red is personal drive. Blue teaches us the importance of decisiveness and clear rules. I am going to stop here.

I'm saying whatever stage of Spiral Dynamics you think you are at is probably not where you are. Sometimes, your development is as strong as your weakest link.

If you weakest link is at Beige, your development is actually at Beige.

My advice is to focus on strong development of foundation rather than fast progression. If you find yourself constantly messing up sleep schedule, start over as a beginner.

Edited March 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat You can have pathologies at each stage. That is why shadow work is important. Although you have a center of gravity at a stage and are centered at 50% of that stage 25% below and 25% above. This is also how you will respond to other humans.  The whole spiral is always accessed. Even if you transcend into a higher realm of the psychic, subtle, casual or non-dual stages (Third tier). One has to move down in order to function as long as a body exists. You can have state stages!  Which are different from structure stages. For instance, the Vietnamese monks who burned themselves achieve a state stage where they feel absolute bliss. These are called absorptions as far as I know Jhanas. And therefore "transcend" the human body, they still die. This whole thing is still a mystery to me. So, they can both be a living concrete... experience as well as a glimpse into the nature of a state, the so-called state stages. 

Structures according to Wilber can't be observed since they are like grammar, inherently visceral in one's flesh and bones. Yet, I am going to create a concept one lays out these language patterns or aspects... and then has the ability to observe them. Like using had involved past perfect and now we know that past perfect which is the "completed" past involves these words, rules, structure, grammar, "syntax".  States are experiences one can dive into, yet structures are .. like a state of mind that is unconscious, till the second tier is accessed and the periphery of what one usually experiences is being expanded since the whole spiral is first visible at second tier which is yellow. There needs to be a drawn out map or structure in order to relate that there is a structure or to better understand it, that is my point.

Looking at the quadrants could help you to understand the theory better. For instance, I could say that the tourquise level of the upper right quadrant which focuses on exterior development of the I, body parts, brain, stomach, guts etc. Is the hypothalamus. Wilber differentiated all of this to draw conclusions and to present a holarchy. A mixture of heterarchy and hierarchy. 

Spiral dynamics is still focused on values. 

Shadow work also never ends as long as biology exists according to Wilber. Some drives are inherently biological and sometimes people are unaware of that. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[CreamCat]

@ValiantSalvatore I think you are conceptualizing too much. `What is` can be simple. `What works` can be even simpler.

Although understanding what is is important, I also focus on what works.

Noticing the difference between interest and commitment helps you live a better life. If you are interested, you do what is convenient. If you are committed, you do what it takes to achieve what you are committed to.

I'm going to focus on commitment and consistency of execution. I think SSD metaphor is apt for consistency. I can learn how to improve latency and throughput of my task management system from SSD performance techniques.

If latency of your task management system is too high, you greatly suffer. For example, if you focus on one thing for too long, you forget to exercise, and you become weak. If your task management system's latency is too low, you suffer from lack of throughput. If you check emails every 30 minutes, you don't get anything important done. You need to strike a balance between latency and throughput. To achieve the balance, you need to exert a lot of emotional labor because it's difficult to stop thinking about something sometimes.

This is just the productivity part. To learn to ignore criticisms, you need more techniques. Leo's videos can help you ignore criticisms.

Productivity + personal growth + insensitivity to criticism = superhuman.

Edited March 16, 2019 by CreamCat

[bejapuskas]

@CreamCat  Are you developing yourself out of love or out of striving to be the best?

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat I can see what you are saying, I know my deficiencies to a great degree, some things do take time. I can see from your post that your understanding of integral theory seems to me half-baked and to much focused on spiral dynamics. People differ greatly ........... on what works for you might not work for me. Because of psychological, biochemical and other reasons. 

Basically, what I can extract from your comment is to have priorities and focus on them with intensity. I like theory a lot and I am from a pragmatic region, so I am inclined to rebel to this sort of pragmatic stuff. Pragmatism can be dogma too.

Also,  I can deal with criticism quite well in hindsight extremely well I even enjoy it, I don't enjoy personal attacks and attempts at manipulation. Or people who are not empathic. 

It is good for that you value all of these things, yet my values do not reside in execution, performance, commitment, and "stage orange" aspects. I know I want to include them in order to function better/sharper. For me of utmost importance is meditation currently and my studies and integrating knowledge, learning more about the world, traditions, culture. I enjoy all of the beauties of life more than execution etc. Even though performance itself is an act of beauty etc. I want to embrace and love myself to let go of it. Effortless execution etc involved in what even I am trying to master, meaning no ego involved. Yet, all of this is just words. 

In case the comment above helped that is good.

 

[Breathe]

22 hours ago, CreamCat said:

If you weakest link is at Beige, your development is actually at Beige.

Did you read the spiral dynamics book?

[lmfao]

On 15/03/2019 at 4:39 PM, CreamCat said:

If you weakest link is at Beige, your development is actually at Beige.

I dont think its possible to be weak in beige. As I understand it beige is the lowest common denominator, your starting point.

But even if you say "If you weakest link is at purple, your development is actually at purple." I still think thats wrong. Peoples development is multifaceted and are multiple stages at a time. 

On 15/03/2019 at 4:39 PM, CreamCat said:

My advice is to focus on strong development of foundation rather than fast progression. If you find yourself constantly messing up sleep schedule, start over as a beginner.

Yes

[bejapuskas]

I mean, if you actually read this advice, it is kind of valid, but still, it is really hard to fall into the ego trap and start using it as some sort of judging tool.

@lmfao  He means that for example Sadhguru has more well developed beige than some fat guy who is sick all day. I understand the second point like that it is kind of harder to for example run a business, if you don't have a supportive family or some other safe place to go when you burn out or something like that... It is not literal, but if you take it with a grain of salt, it can make sense, at least for me.

[CreamCat]

8 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

It is good for that you value all of these things, yet my values do not reside in execution, performance, commitment, and "stage orange" aspects. I know I want to include them in order to function better/sharper. For me of utmost importance is meditation currently and my studies and integrating knowledge, learning more about the world, traditions, culture. I enjoy all of the beauties of life more than execution etc.

The problem is my lack of execution prevents me from enjoying life. Doing nothing is execution of emotional labor. To enjoy life, you need to exert emotional labor, first. If you are merely interested in meditation and solo retreat, you would do them when it's convenient. If you wait for when it's convenient, you are not going to do them much.

I suggest that you are as effective as your weakest link. If your weakest link is at Purple, your effectiveness is crippled by Purple. A loner who doesn't have friends can have very hard time if one is not already making money. It's very difficult to escape poverty trap when one is alone. Poverty trap forces you to be at Beige. You are going to search dumpsters for food.

Lack of strong foundation at a certain Stage often makes you do things at that stage and below. In a sense, the universe is making you focus on your weakest links. I'm technically Orange, but I often find myself addressing concerns of lower stages because I don't have strong foundation at lower stages.

Edited March 16, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

9 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@CreamCat  Are you developing yourself out of love or out of striving to be the best?

Right now, I'm striving to be strategic and not react to my emotions. Love and being the best are out of reach for now.

Edited March 16, 2019 by CreamCat

[Joseph Maynor]

I don’t think it quite works like that.  You’re projecting a kind of mental schematic on reality and assuming that reality must work that way.  

Edited March 16, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[CreamCat]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don’t think it quite works like that.  You’re projecting a kind of mental schematic on reality and assuming that reality must work that way.  

If you spend half of your day thinking about where to find dumpsters that have food, your operational/effective center of gravity is brought down to Beige. In that situation, you will soon stop thinking about higher-level concerns like achieving excellence in a field.

Your potential center of gravity in a comfortable situation can still be at Orange or Green.

I can feel the downward pull toward lower stages.

How do you think it works otherwise?

Edited March 17, 2019 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat That is true partially, still when the need for eating food is stilled at higher levels can re-emerge again. It is possible to be self-sufficient and be at stage green/yellow even without much friends depending on how much social interaction you need. I get easily drained by them and enjoy rather short interactions with a small group of people or at best one on one since they are not that draining.

I won't deny that I lack people to talk to, yet this is so common currently. The best choice is to join some sort of organization to have social interactions or a group, maintain a group of friends etc.
 

I am also not sure if you have ever seen stage beige or how it can impact other humans. It's not fun depending on the situation.

 

[zambize]

I think you have a good message actually, but I don't necessarily agree with the logic you use to explain it.  It seems like you came up with the idea first, and then came up with the logic behind it.  

There definitely is a problem with people trying to learn Calculus before they learn algebra, and I think making sure you check out on your fundamentals such as sleep and healthy eating is certainly an important lesson.  I just don't necessarily see the logic behind if you're fairly deficient in a lower stage, then you are at that stage.  

You have a pretty clear conclusion on what you are trying to argue, major props to that

"My advice is to focus on strong development of foundation rather than fast progression. If you find yourself constantly messing up sleep schedule, start over as a beginner."

I just think you could've maybe skipped the SD explanation, and went into practical ways for people to take your advice, or testimonials on how your advice has effected your own life.  

[bejapuskas]

11 hours ago, CreamCat said:

Right now, I'm striving to be strategic and not react to my emotions. Love and being the best are out of reach for now.

Then try to find that love, it is closer than you think. In fact it is right here, you just don't get it  

It is certainly healthy to work on yourself like that, but if you are doing it out of this motivation, I don't know how far you can actually go. I mean, are you trying to be happy or perfect?

[Dumivid]

@CreamCat

Excessive knowledge do more harm than good.

I think is better for you to use a simple model like Maslow Pyramid of needs or/and The Wheel Of Life.
Drop that belief you should be this or that, drop that you should have this or that.
Find your weakest point and the destination for your desire.
Now you have something to get away from (like idk, the lack of money) to a goal (like idk, free travel in abundance of money).

Do not overcomplicate your journey unless is rock bottom necessary (Spoiler! It is not).

[CreamCat]

@Dumivid I think spiral dynamics can be simple. Spiral dynamics overlaps with maslow's pyramid of needs.

Edited March 17, 2019 by CreamCat

[Dumivid]

@CreamCat

We are not judging if SD can be simple or not, we try to find out a better solution how to make self-help work less intellectual and more practical.

Maslow Pyramid is simple. You have needs, you fulfill them.
SD is new dimension to this puzzle and a new playing field for misunderstanding and unhealthy interpretation.

Anyway, it was an opinion, not and universal truth, I don’t want argue about it. Hope you are right in your own experience.
Good luck.

[zambize]

41 minutes ago, Dumivid said:

@CreamCat

We are not judging if SD can be simple or not, we try to find out a better solution how to make self-help work less intellectual and more practical 

Someone does read what I say 

[bejapuskas]

@CreamCat  See how you are still falling into this trap of your ego. You want to be right, you want your model to work, you want to act on it to become something better. This mirrors the person who came up with this model. Accept yourself as you are, love yourself like a child. Saying: I have to become this and only then will I be happy - is dysfunctional bs. If you love yourself, you will naturally go in the direction of things that are good for you, your mind will be more free...