Is it actually possible to escape the wheel of death and rebirth?

[Bluebird]

Does anyone have any experience with this? It seems to me that you've always found your way back here. That you either keep choosing to come down, or you really have no choice in the matter.

Some enlightened masters talk about escaping this cycle forever and residing in your true self for eternity. Is this actually possible, I can rationalise it working both ways so logic here doesn't seem to be helping me.

In my own experience so far rebirth seems like an endless and inevitable occurrence/choice. Does anyone else have any experience on this? Is it even possible to verify this since if it is in fact true then how could anyone ever tell you since they would be gone forever, merged with the Absolute.

[Hellspeed]

We already are merged with the absolute, what you describe there are religious points of view. 

The cycle of death and birth is always present in humanity. The cycle of the EGO coming back in another body is a belief system, a BS explanation for slaves to give them hope and continue working. 

[AlwaysBeNice]

Idk, I'm a noob, but ye, beginning - end - beginning.

But there is an end to any perceivable form of you, and there also is an end to state of minds, and there are ends to appearances, worlds.

So whether or not 'you come back', afaik, liberation is about realizing you were never in it to begin with. 

- Also it seems to imply life can't be inherently good, if that's the experience, then that's a pity, but you can feel good and be happy as well, without thoughts of.. what ever.

[pluto]

Once you awaken you do whatever you want, loops only exist within unconsciousness.

[Enlightenment]

35 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

Some enlightened masters talk about escaping this cycle forever and residing in your true self for eternity.

But isn't residing in true self/great Brahman a realm of existence itself? You can get reborn to it, but Dukkha is still there. Getting of the wheel means something else. That's how I understand it now:

 

[ajasatya]

1 hour ago, Bluebird said:

Does anyone have any experience with this? It seems to me that you've always found your way back here. That you either keep choosing to come down, or you really have no choice in the matter.

this is partially right. except that you don't "choose" to come down as if you're in some spectral realm and then decide "i am going to reincarnate". it's just that Reality makes it to be conscious of itself again and a new sense of "i" arises.

"i" is a consequence of consciousness. not the other way around.

don't ask me how/why Reality happens to become conscious of itself again, though. this is the core of the highest mystery. contemplate it... it's a doorway to immense awe!

Edited March 13, 2019 by ajasatya

[Bluebird]

@ajasatya yes, i was speaking more poetically than anything. It is indeed a good facet to contemplate

[Salvijus]

@Bluebird

Your mental and energy body dosn't die when your physical body dies. It reincarnates. To dissolve the mental and energy body is called Mukti or ending the cycles of birth and death, or cease to exist.

It is your mental and energy body which reincarnates over and over because it has enourmos amounts of karma inside of them. Karma means action. Physical action, mental action, energy action. When you die physical action stops but mental and energy body has still a lot of information/karma in them so it finds another body to finish it's karma. Unfinished buisiness you can call it.

So there are methods as to how to dissolve this karma and brake all the cycles. 

You see. Realization means you're not your person, you're not your ego. But this ego is a bundle of memories and information. It doesn't die when the body dies. It reincarnates.

So realization is good, you become aware that you're not the body, you're not the mind. But then the next step is to dissolve the ego/personality because it's still alive, only diference now is that you're aware that it's not you and it gives you a lot of freedom but it's still alive. Because of it reincarnation happens. That's why there are methods how to dissolve the ego completely. Ego is just a movement of your mind, isnt it? You stop the activity of the mind, puff ego is gone. That's one mehod. There are other methods also.

Dissolving your ego means. It means when you sit, you sit here as a piece of existence, like wind or breeze. You're not sitting here as a bundle of thoughts, ideas, prejudices and emotions. just completely blank and empty for years without a single thought if they want to. There're beings like that. Sadhguru and his bramacharies are in this state and he talked about it in his book, it's absolutely amazing.. Many other sages are like this also. A being like that will not reincarnate... 

1 hour ago, Bluebird said:

 I can rationalise it working both ways so logic here doesn't seem to be helping me.

That's not very true.. There're very elaborate explanations of how it works and how to brake the cycles. Logically unbreakable explanations are all over the place. Go deep into some Therevada Bhuddhism or just sadhguru you'll see. A very detailed, logical, coherenct explanations are there. No beliefs, no dogma nothing.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Salvijus

[Truth Addict]

Yes, only if it was't a thought in the first place.

[Amun]

Look into dependent arising. 

[Elia]

2 hours ago, ajasatya said:

this is partially right. except that you don't "choose" to come down as if you're in some spectral realm and then decide "i am going to reincarnate". it's just that Reality makes it to be conscious of itself again and a new sense of "i" arises.

"i" is a consequence of consciousness. not the other way around.

don't ask me how/why Reality happens to become conscious of itself again, though. this is the core of the highest mystery. contemplate it... it's a doorway to immense awe!

this is a nightmare. no escape, no rest...

One cannot even look forward to death because you will be conscious again. Conscious in every possible way, through the life of a peaceful monk, through that of a slaughterhouse cow, a beggar in the street, a biology teacher, an emo teenager, an abandoned street dog, a dancer, a factory worker..

 

 

 

 

[ajasatya]

2 hours ago, Elia said:

this is a nightmare. no escape, no rest...

One cannot even look forward to death because you will be conscious again. Conscious in every possible way, through the life of a peaceful monk, through that of a slaughterhouse cow, a beggar in the street, a biology teacher, an emo teenager, an abandoned street dog, a dancer, a factory worker..

this line of thought arises because you're not experiencing a good life NOW. live a good life NOW.

[Markus]

@Bluebird The Buddha supposedly did escape samsara. By my intuition and experience his core teachings are very on point so I believe it is indeed possible. As long as there is any karma or ego, as long as there is any you, you are bound to the cycle of reincarnation. If you shed all karma, there's nirvana, liberation. Which is a much much taller order than the awakened states our popular teachers are in.

[cetus]

@Bluebird  One thing you'll never hear is "I escaped the wheel of birth and death". If you do, they haven't.

[Ananta]

Thread title:

"Is it actually possible to escape the wheel of death and rebirth?"

 

The escape is the realization you were never born in the first place, therefore can not die and certainly can't be reborn. It's not some sort of soul emancipation from the wheel of samsara.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Anna1

[Moreira]

The samsara as hindus say, or the wheel of birth and death is just a concept product of the mind.

And so we cannot escape of this process because we are IT. In this process some individual consciouness arises, and our brain trick us to believe that we are apart from the universe and we can escape. 

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, Bluebird said:

It seems to me

See what ‘me’ is, and the questions of reincarnation no longer make any sense. 

8 hours ago, Bluebird said:

logic here doesn't seem to be helping me

Do you really see that? Or do you continue attempting to utliize logic? (Thinking)

8 hours ago, Bluebird said:

In my own experience so far rebirth seems like an endless and inevitable occurrence/choice.

What was your experience of rebirth like?  Can you describe it? 

8 hours ago, Bluebird said:

Is it even possible to verify this since if it is in fact true

How do you now it’s true? How do you know it’s a fact?

What do you even mean by verify? 

8 hours ago, Bluebird said:

how could anyone ever tell you since they would be gone forever, merged with the Absolute.

How do you know that? Do you have any experience of that happening? 

[Forestluv]

@Bluebird

Dualistic perspective: 1st Law of Thermodynamics - energy is neither created nor destroyed. Energy can only be changed from one form to another.

Nondual perspective: One Everything. There is no separate, finite "you".

There is no escape.

[Bluebird]

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What was your experience of rebirth like?  Can you describe it? 

Hard to describe, I remember when "I was being God" for lack of a better way of putting it "I" realised that it was all so pointless, but that the "waking up" experience was so beautiful and that I wanted to do it again. And it happened about 2/3 times where I took on ego "little me" again and then slowly lost myself into formlessness again and the love and beauty deepened each time.

I should point out this was on a large LSD trip so I'm not saying it maps to actual rebirth or a new ego (though it felt that way), just the closest I've gotten.

[Bluebird]

Quote

There is no escape.

The escape is the realization you were never born in the first place, therefore can not die and certainly can't be reborn. It's not some sort of soul emancipation from the wheel of samsara.

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