Knowledge does not exist. Understanding is an illusion.

[luckieluuke]

@FoxFoxFox I think what @Joseph Maynor is simply trying to say is that the mind and maybe "ego" needs illusions (ideas, knowledge) to explain the illusion (perceived reality) first in order to open up for the "real" work.
For me it´s a bit like that and I know it´s like that for others as well. If I need to meditate for 1000 hours in order to experience some truth then first I need a reason to do it. As you move on you realize that the reason has become a burden/obstacle so you drop it and move on.
This text that Ivankiss wrote is a beautiful illusion that can help you realize that it is an illusion, and once you do you can leave it behind and move on.

[ivankiss]

4 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I'm wondering what they think about you -- jeez!  I get a kind of virtue-signaling vibe from what you write here, where you're tearing everybody else down to elevate yourself.

Everybody else is also me. Why would I wanna tear myself down? Why wouldn't I wanna elevate everyone?

Can't you see the mirror, Joseph?

You speak so often about transcending the mind, yet here you are; unable to recognize transcendence when it's right in your face. 

This is just an expression, Joseph.

Has no built it meaning. You should know that by now. 

[Shin]

Let go of the pride Joseph.

Do it now before you're forced to do it.

It's gonna be a hell of a lot harder if you wait.

[ivankiss]

@Nahm Never said I don't love em or do disrespect em.

I just don't get the hype. It's overblown. False.

Authentic awakening requires nothing. Awareness and direct experience only.

No beef, really. Just felt like I saw enough to express some. 

?

@luckieluuke I could not write about anything without experiencing it first. It's just not what I do. Not how I'm wired. 

Experience is primary. Expression comes right after it.

Authenticity is key.

Got myself a rather pleasant loop going on here haha. I love it.

Edited March 20, 2019 by ivankiss

[Nahm]

@ivankiss They are God. 

[ivankiss]

@Shadowraix I do not negate or deny the importance of knowledge or any teaching.

I simply express myself. As well as document my own process of evolution. 

All of this is personal to me af. But also totally not. This is exactly how transcendence is playing itself out in my experience. 

Every word is consciously written for me, by me. Yet the intention behind it all is far beyond the self. It is pure and divine. 

Teaching is secondary, automatic even. Was not part of the plan, so to speak. 

But it surely completes the circle.

[ivankiss]

@Nahm Spotless mirrors.

[FoxFoxFox]

@luckieluuke There are no illusions. 

[robdl]

On 3/12/2019 at 11:55 AM, ivankiss said:

 

The need for knowledge stems from fear.

 

Indeed.

Need for knowledge being desire for knowledge, and desire (knowledge) being an operation/cloak/veil of fear. 

"Fear" = thought escaping (itself). "Desire"/knowledge = thought seeking (itself).

Seeking and escaping in thought being one and the same identification-attachment process.  Thought seeking security in its own movement --- a self-feeding loop.

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by robdl

[Shadowraix]

@Joseph Maynor The further along we go on the path, the more sneaky the ego becomes. It gets more and more subtle. What an interesting mechanism it is.

[Shin]

49 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You're not the one to give me such advice Shin.  I consider the source when someone gives me advice.

[Shadowraix]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Interesting.  Give us some more detail.  

Wasn't claiming it applied to you btw was a general statement. 

But surely you've seen, say, an expression of ego then people go "What? No ego here, just nonduality no self" 

[ivankiss]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You are a master at rationalization and being stuck in the Mind.  Not trying to be rude either, just an observation.  Of course, this is not gonna resonate with you at all, so it's almost pointless for me to say it.  You've created your own fantasy reality in your own Mind where you get to abide by your own rules and be superior to everyone else.  Now, that's a house of cards, but I'm reluctant to even point this out to you because you lack the ears to hear it right now.  When you are ready, that bubble of mental idealism will burst on its own.

Ever read your own words? Ever caught a glimpse of that reflection?

It's crazy how precise and accurate it is. 

I am open for anything you feel like suggesting to me, Joseph. Honestly.

But so far I only see you kicking into nothing, pointing at your own forehead.

Gotta admit, it's cool that you see me as superior tho. Whatever I did to make you conclude that. 

I guess you're the first one.

Not even triggered.

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

Consciousness is only known by being Conscious and there is no room for knowledge here. As Ludwig Wittgenstein says: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

BUT (and it's a big BUTT),

Knowledge is good to point you in the right direction or even make you realize that you don't know who you are, what you are or what existence is. Also, knowledge is very useful in day to day life and if you want to succeed in any field, you'll need KNAWLEDGE.

As Peter Ralston says: "Creating distinctions brings power - destroying them brings freedom." or something like that

 

[ivankiss]

@Juan Cruz Giusto Nicely put.

 

The flame burns eternally not knowing fire.

[Shin]

3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Take your own advice first Shin.  

There's a famous blues line that goes like this: "B'fore you 'ccuse me, take a look at yo'self."

One must first possess and establish the relevant credibility in offering such advice to others to be taken seriously.

 

 

Why do you think I'm so critical about you Joseph ?

Have you ever heard of tough love ?

[Amun]

I see there is a lot of muh enlightenedness going on in this thread. Wherever there are egos there is a fight

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Amun said:

I see there is a lot of muh enlightenedness going on in this thread. Wherever there are egos there is a fight

And that's not a fight ?

[Amun]

20 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You're not the one to give me such advice Shin.  I consider the source when someone gives me advice.

Bullshit. You didn´t attack the argument but the person. Your reply is empty of content other than the obvious "I am better than you"

[Amun]

5 minutes ago, Shin said:

And that's not a fight ?

I know you are not trying to fight

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I agree with Shin that you're not conscious of your own need to fight.

Again you didn´t reply to the content of the comment but just made it about me.