How does Buddhism overlap here

[BIggleswerth]

I am curious how Buddhism fits here.

How is Buddhism different than the forum topic here. How is it the same?

And if the teachings here on enlightenment are not from Buddhism, where are they from?

[Joseph Maynor]

Buddhism is a very wide tradition.  I think to the extent that we're talking about Enlightenment work, Buddhism becomes relevant, as does Advaita Vedanta, and other spiritual traditions that talk about something analogous to Enlightenment work.  But within Buddhism, you have a wide variety of schools and traditions.  Zen Buddhism is only one tradition of Buddhism.  And even under Zen Buddhism or its predecessor Chan Buddhism you have a variety of schools.  The key thread that runs through all of these is Enlightenment work -- that's the least common denominator to all these traditions, whether Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist or whatever.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[ajasatya]

@BIggleswerth buddhist practices offer a great methodology for embodying enlightenment.

however, if you just stick to the abstract/intellectual talks within buddhism, you will certainly get stuck, as in any other spiritual tradition or set of concepts (including actualized.org content taught by leo).

[Joseph Maynor]

16 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

@BIggleswerth buddhist practices offer a great methodology for embodying enlightenment.

however, if you just stick to the abstract/intellectual talks within buddhism, you will certainly get stuck, as in any other spiritual tradition or set of concepts (including actualized.org content taught by leo).

I had an insight yesterday that the most Enlightened person is the person who just lives their life and is not preoccupied with Enlightenment discussions at all.  It's a liberation from the Mind.  That's the highest level of Enlightenment.  Just you living your life without being preoccupied with talking about Enlightenment.  I am not at this point yet, and this might just be a thought.  But it was an insight that I had, and I just wanted to note it.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[ajasatya]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I had an insight yesterday that the most Enlightened person is the person who just lives their life and is not preoccupied with Enlightenment discussions at all.  It's a liberation from the Mind.  That's the highest level of Enlightenment.  Just you living your life without being preoccupied with talking about Enlightenment.

that's accurate. i still talk about it here on the forum because people long for it and a solid basic conceptual framework can work as a guidance and motivator. of course there's always the risk of people attaching themselves to specific ideas, but it can't be avoided... it's a trap everyone kinda needs to fall and learn how to diagnose it.

Edited March 11, 2019 by ajasatya

[Aeris]

read marc aurèle, he was a killer and a monk

[Shadowraix]

I'd say most religions are just methods people have used to reach enlightenment.

Although, Buddhism I would also say stays closer to its roots than others such as Christianity in terms of how people practice it.

Given that Buddhism offers a path to enlightenment and lots of growth, there will be a lot of overlap.

Buddhism has a lot to learn off of, many people share teachings from Buddhist monks here.

Just focus on verifying what is being said and following the conceptual pointers instead of worrying about the origins of the teaching. This opens you up to learn from all religions and all practices.

[mandyjw]

3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I had an insight yesterday that the most Enlightened person is the person who just lives their life and is not preoccupied with Enlightenment discussions at all.  It's a liberation from the Mind.  That's the highest level of Enlightenment.  Just you living your life without being preoccupied with talking about Enlightenment.  I am not at this point yet, and this might just be a thought.  But it was an insight that I had, and I just wanted to note it.

I think that's definitely right. Talking about/thinking about enlightenment is very stage yellow. I think that it's a good thing to be aware of but if we pretend that we are turquoise when we are thoroughly still yellow we will just hinder out growth. Also how else can we help stage green get to stage yellow if we don't discuss anything? As long as you take the time to embody it, talking about it some of the time is fine. 

[Markus]

@BIggleswerth Buddhism is a very broad thing, with different branches and varying interpretations of those branches. I'll contrast what seem to me to be the prevalent views here vs How I view the Buddha's teachings.

I notice a lot of emphasis here on awakening, having insights into the non-dual nature of reality. How self and other/the world are not separate. And so having this realization in a complete manner would lead to full enlightenment, and the cessation of suffering. Meditation, self-inquiry, and psychedelics are used to try to reach this realization. The character and relative nature of the "enlightened person" is considered a separate matter, as it falls into the realm of duality.

The Buddha's first noble truth is that life is suffering. It may be more accurately stated as life has an inherently unsatisfactory nature. Due to fear of the unknown, caused by our inability to understand the world, or guarantee our safety, we seek to control life. Our need to control creates cravings. Cravings basically control our lives. Cravings are the cause of suffering. Only by completely and clearly seeing the impossibility of gaining satisfaction in life, will our mechanism of craving start to exhaust itself. Bit by bit. Leading to a greater freedom with it. Until, by the extinguishing of all craving, liberation is reached.

 

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

No, the first noble truth is 'there is dukkha' [which can mean suffering or dissatisfaction], not that all life is suffering [and the 4th noble truth is there is an end to dukkha].

Don't carelessly twist the teaching. Kind of hate it when people do that.

The reason I hate it is because, well, a, it's false, b, it's a quote of a great and the most famous yogi, c, it's an enormous claim, d, a negative mind can actually taint all of external life gruesome.

Edited March 11, 2019 by AlwaysBeNice

[Nic]

I'm reading: Peace by monk Tsem Rinpoche, https://www.amazon.com/Peace-Tsem-Rinpoche/dp/9675365161/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 a fantastic short book, the most direct monk I know about. It will expend your love level very very quickly, this is so condensed stuff! You will want to read it again and again because it touches exactly where it has to touch and the themes are 100% contemporary and practical! Lucky is the one who will follow my advice! Go for it!

 It has been a long time I haven't read Buddhist stuff (which was a mistake,..., this book is really efficient!) 

And I was wondering about causality, Buddhism and non-duality... This book says that causality is the base of Buddhism, so I checked on Google and find articles, blogs, forums saying that Buddha passed on non-dual teachings blablabla... Basically I'm a bit lost...

What did Buddha say about the "isness" of reality. For Buddhists, does everything happen for a reason or not?

 

[Truth Addict]

On 11/03/2019 at 0:28 PM, Joseph Maynor said:

I had an insight yesterday that the most Enlightened person is the person who just lives their life and is not preoccupied with Enlightenment discussions at all.  It's a liberation from the Mind.  That's the highest level of Enlightenment.  Just you living your life without being preoccupied with talking about Enlightenment.  I am not at this point yet, and this might just be a thought.  But it was an insight that I had, and I just wanted to note it.

Agreed.

But only the ones who go through hell will ever have the keys to heaven.

So, I think we should feel grateful for the gift of hell (Mind).

[Joseph Maynor]

On 3/12/2019 at 4:07 AM, Truth Addict said:

Agreed.

But only the ones who go through hell will ever have the keys to heaven.

So, I think we should feel grateful for the gift of hell (Mind).

Mind is great when you're not unwittenly caught up in it.  It's being bamboozled by the Mind that's the issue.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Mind is great when you're not unwittenly caught up in it.  It's being bamboozled by the Mind that's the issue.

And how would you be able to reach there without being bamboozled by it first? 

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

And how would you be able to reach there without being bamboozled by it first? 

Well, yeah, you're gonna be bamboozled by the Mind at first, but you'll see through the Mind more and more.

[RichardY]

Listen to the most canonical texts you can get. In the Pali canon of Buddhism, it describes multiple forms of Enlightenment.  The Buddha talks about lesser forms of Enlightenment that he has observed, and is afraid.  Bear in mind that not even the Buddha attained permanent, total Enlightenment. Some decadent western or easterner, has no chance. There is an Audiobook called "in the Words of the Buddha." The lazy mans way of learning about Buddhism at least in theory. Skin and Bones, hardcore meditation, no thank you. 

The presumption though of Enlightenment being a good thing, I would not say that is so. The Buddha literally talks about being skin and bones to trigger enlightenment experiences. Psychedelics would interest me, but the fact I observe double think in those exposed and a long term decrease in creativity, thou they may think otherwise, has deterred me, as a last resort you could say fuck it and do it anyway. I do not think that would be a good idea. Also that it mentions in the Quran about stealing your soul, and negative connotations in the Bible.

Both Good and Evil must have proximatly equal sway. If good is destined to prevail metaphysically, the sensible and obvious option would be to do good; it would be utterly pointless to not be. That is not the case. If you indeed accept the premise you have freewill; then potentially the darkest possible reality must be actual, it can not be otherwise.

The only way Buddhism overlaps here is how to get the cake as easily as possible. Buddhism basically has things as illusion, the transcendent reality to which you aspire Nirvana. The one who recognises, no-self the "noble disciple." Basically reality as one big projection to which Buddhism recognises very well. But it is not the whole truth. In fact Leibniz's metaphysics seems to have been a refinement of some Buddhist theology. But he lies, was also noted for backdating work. He gives a good tidy explanation of the Trinity which is BS, he does however recognise the transcendent aspect very well. "The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good". - Voltaire.

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, Ero said:

@Joseph Maynor One thing that actually came to me is regarding "Love" as well. It may be useful to point to an experience of holism /inclusiveness, but I saw the same dynamic as with "Enlightenment". It's a story, useful to help one open (as it did for me), but when it became a way of thinking... Well the common story. Funny thing is that'll probably start to translate in all concepts I have. Weird. What's your experience? 

I really resonate with Zen which is really helping me to transcend the Mind.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[AlwaysBeNice]

7 hours ago, RichardY said:

Listen to the most canonical texts you can get. In the Pali canon of Buddhism, it describes multiple forms of Enlightenment.  The Buddha talks about lesser forms of Enlightenment that he has observed, and is afraid.  Bear in mind that not even the Buddha attained permanent, total Enlightenment. Some decadent western or easterner, has no chance. There is an Audiobook called "in the Words of the Buddha." The lazy mans way of learning about Buddhism at least in theory. Skin and Bones, hardcore meditation, no thank you. 

Can you source these claims? Seems to be contradictory from what I've read.

We're dealing with different interpretations and his words were written down 500 years after his death as well..