Work on english writing.

[CreamCat]

When I read a comment written in poor english grammar, it's hard for me to take it seriously. It's also painful to read.

If your english is not good enough, your english grammar deteriorates quickly when you are tired, deprived of sleep, or triggered.

It's painful to read a comment written by someone who is deprived of sleep or excessively tired or excessively distracted or deeply triggered. A deep sleep deprivation kills a native english speaker's writing ability, too.

Quick solution // Get some rest. Write when you are in a good shape. How can I take you seriously if you are not in a good shape?

Edited March 11, 2019 by CreamCat

[Joseph Maynor]

English grammar is the single subject that I allow myself to nerd-out in nowadays.  I love it, and it does improve your writing bigly as the Donald would say.  

Edited March 11, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[CreamCat]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

English grammar is the single subject that I allow myself to nerd-out in nowadays.  I love it, and it does improve your writing bigly as the Donald would say.  

I like writing bigly.

[Forestluv]

Keep in mind that many forum users write English as their second or third language. English is challenging to write well as A second language. The sentiment is more meaningful than whether the sentence structure and spelling is correct. Yet I also appreciate those that write English well. It can be beautiful.

[CreamCat]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Keep in mind that many forum users write English as their second or third language. English is challenging to write well as A second language. The sentiment is more meaningful than whether the sentence structure and spelling is correct. Yet I also appreciate those that write English well. It can be beautiful.

It's difficult to extract sentiment when it's written very poorly. I have to read again and again. It can be annoying.

Readers expect the most bang for a small amount of reading. Good novels succeed partly because they deliver a lot of bang for a small amount of effort.

Living creatures like to conserve energy.

By the way, english is a second language to me, too. Nobody speaks english in my region. I'm not going to lash out on poor english grammar, but it's usually difficult to take a poorly written comment seriously.

Edited March 11, 2019 by CreamCat

[Joseph Maynor]

20 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

It's difficult to extract sentiment when it's written very poorly. I have to read again and again. It can be annoying.

Readers expect the most bang for a small amount of reading. Good novels succeed partly because they deliver a lot of bang for a small amount of effort.

Living creatures like to conserve energy.

I'm anal about writing in the same way someone else might be anal about cooking or drawing.  I never criticize other people's writing though, only my own.  I'm sympathetic to others because I was told when I was a kid that I sucked as a writer so I have that in my past.  It took me a long time to find my voice as a writer.  But now, if I find one little mistake in my writing it bugs me.  I don't let it torment me, but it bugs me.  I guess it would be like noticing an erroneous brush stroke on one of your paintings if you were a painter.  Your eye goes to that one spot!

Edited March 11, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

By the way, english is a second language to me, too. Nobody speaks english in my region. I'm not going to lash out on poor english grammar, but it's usually difficult to take a poorly written comment seriously.

Great. I’ve struggled to speak and write Spanish well as my second language. I’ve traveled through Spanish speaking countries and I’m so grateful that the locals were kind and patient with me. 

[Truth Addict]

@CreamCat

I'll just be plain.

You're talking like you're on the top of the world, and you're looking down upon everyone else.

Reminds you of something? Yes, the ego.

Maybe if you gave up your judgements and cared more about other people's circumstances, and maybe put yourself in their shoes, maybe then there would be no problem for you.

Thank you.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Hellspeed]

Grammar is another EGO triggerer, take it very seriously and you can see for yourself how stuck are you in the illusion. Is a tool, but let's not make a tool more important than the ideas expressed by it. What you are experiencing my friend is indoctrination, when you say it's annoying and difficult to trust bad grammar is because you rely more on aesthetics than substance. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Hellspeed

[Joseph Maynor]

As a good example, I just had a real issue come up.  The issue is do I say toward or towards.  There's actually a split opinion regarding this usage.

I picked 'toward' in the context I was in because it seemed to read better, more succinctly.  

https://www.dictionary.com/e/word-fact-toward-vs-towards/

Edited March 11, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[CreamCat]

16 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

As a good example, I just had a real issue come up.  The issue is do I say toward or towards.  There's actually a split opinion regarding this usage.

I picked 'toward' in the context I was in because it seemed to read better, more succinctly.  

https://www.dictionary.com/e/word-fact-toward-vs-towards/

That's a fine tuning. I was talking about not making it difficult for others to read one's english writing.

When people who are not good at english try to write a fancy comment, they mess up. When those people are not in a good shape, they mess up.

Just sticking to basic english grammar and not trying to write anything fancy that is beyond one's english level can improve readability a lot.

You can see that I am not trying to be clever with my english writing. I use basic words. Clever english writing is the realm of elite english speakers who know more than 35,000 english words and have mastered fine details of english over decades as native english speakers.

It's better to write orderly english than to write clever english for most people most of the time.

Edited March 12, 2019 by CreamCat

[Arcangelo]

''How can I take you seriously if you are not in a good shape?'' > You don't have to take me seriously don't worry.

 

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, CreamCat said:

That's a fine tuning. I was talking about not making it difficult for others to read one's english writing.

When people who are not good at english try to write a fancy comment, they mess up. When those people are not in a good shape, they mess up.

Just sticking to basic english grammar and not trying to write anything fancy that is beyond one's english level can improve readability a lot.

You can see that I am not trying to be clever with my english writing. I use basic words. Clever english writing is the realm of elite english speakers who know more than 35,000 english words and have mastered fine details of english over decades as native english speakers.

It's better to write orderly english than to write clever english for most people most of the time.

Yeah, but you gotta cut the ESL (English as a second language) people some slack.  You would suck too if you tried to write in another language.  I've dabbled in Spanish, Turkish, Mandarin Chinese, and Italian, so I know what it's like to look at language with a beginner's mind.  Any ESL person who can write here gets my credit.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Arcangelo]

Hi. For example I just posted this in my journal: ''I really like how i have been fine tuning all the little details for this trip.''

Looking back i should have said ''about this trip'' instead of ''for this trip'' right?

Both are valid right?

Which would you use CreamCat? (or anyone) ''for'' or ''about''?

Arc

[Deepconcepts]

I'm currently attending school for my adult education, since i never went through highschool.

I then realized how much i was limited conceptually speaking, without knowing proper sentence structure, context and how to create that consice concluding sentence, to ensure a reader they understand me without question. 

Great post!

Edited March 12, 2019 by Deepconcepts

[bejapuskas]

It is very interesting, how one's confidence with the language they are speaking at the moment can affect their behavior so bigly. (I love that word  Heard it for the first time here, thanks ) I've seen this quite attractive Italian girl, who you would assume is confident, but she only was when speaking Italian! She became a completely different person when she was speaking English with me. 

[CreamCat]

6 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Hi. For example I just posted this in my journal: ''I really like how i have been fine tuning all the little details for this trip.''

Looking back i should have said ''about this trip'' instead of ''for this trip'' right?

Both are valid right?

Both are valid. My gripe was with sentences that are very difficult to read. I'm ok with sentences that are not difficult to understand.

At first, I thought fine tune was not a verb. Dictionary says fine-tune is a verb. So, I'd write

Quote

I really like how i have been fine-tuning all the little details for/about this trip.

I think "fine tune" is a little bit weird. "fine-tune" is a better choice. It seems I just fine-tuned your sentence. I'd advise that you focus on punctuation and hyphens in compound words. It's going to improve readability.

Another example // I'd rewrite

Quote

Looking back i should have said ''about this trip'' instead of ''for this trip'' right?

as

Quote

Looking back, I should have said ''about this trip'' instead of ''for this trip'' right?

The absence of comma between "Looking back" and "I" can confuse anyone who is not already good at english. Don't try to boast your english writing skill. It's going to confuse ESL people. Focus on readability.

Edited March 13, 2019 by CreamCat

[Arcangelo]

Thanks. I do have a couple of writing projects, and this is going to help. Can we make this thread about quick checking our english writing?

[CreamCat]

4 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Thanks. I do have a couple of writing projects, and this is going to help. Can we make this thread about quick checking our english writing?

I recommend creating a new thread for that. Oh, I think it would be off-topic for actualized.org forum. You better find an appropriate place for questions.

Edited March 15, 2019 by CreamCat