How to release Trauma?

[Forestluv]

12 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

What I mean by "trauma" and "real" is this:

Trauma is what you think is trauma.

Real is what you think is real.

My take on your view of trauma is that you already consider it "real" and that it includes material and immaterial etc... But I would have to ask again: what is material or immaterial but a thought? For that reason, anything I say won't penetrate, because we are already speaking different categories.

I think you are describing a really important aspect of direct experience which is key. Few people understand it and as you say, direct experience is key. It is not something that can be theorized or scientifically proven. I'm totally comfortable in that domain. 

I think the view you are presenting is tied a bit much to thoughts. Thoughts dominant our perception and sense of being. It is possible to exist without thought. I've gone 10 minutes or so without thought. There are other impulses in my mind-body, just no thoughts. So if I am hiking in nature without thought, is anything "real"? Is realness dependent on thoughts? To me, thought is just one mode of being. There are lots of other modes, yet thoughts love to dominate.

Consider this situation: Last week I was on a plane in a thoughtless state of consciousness. There was simply awareness without thought. There was an appearance of a flight attendant carrying a box filled with four different items: Cookies, Pretzels and Peanuts. Within my mind-body a desire for cookies arose. There was an awareness of this desire and my hand pointed to the cookie packages. The flight attendant then handed me a package of cookies. Smiles arose. My mind-body then knew to open the package and place the cookie in my mouth and chew. Then the first thought arose in my mind: "This is so yummy". During that whole process, not a single thought arose. Other modes of being were operative such as intuition. I would say that the events without thought that arose were real. There was a real desire for cookies that arose, yet there was no thought to validate that desire such as "I want cookies". There is realness independent of thoughts. Thoughts are within realness, yet not necessary for realness.

12 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

The question is: do you agree with me that healing won't be permanent without "the actual work"? And that any outside solution is only symptomatic, and it will not solve the root issue, or at least it will not prevent it from relapsing. Whereas "the actual work" guarantees protection, that's my experience.

From a dualistic perspective of "outside" and "inside" I would agree.

[Truth Addict]

@Serotoninluv

It's very important to understand that thought is very tricky, and that it always says it isn't (tricky), and that it didn't say it.

So, as for the thoughtless state that you've had:

It was, period. Like it possibly now is, period.

I think what you're describing is a indescribable, it transcends real vs unreal. And the moment you said it was real, that right there is a thought.

I'll present a similar example:

"This statement is true".

Is it?

The answer, whether it's yes or no, is a belief.

It's just a statement, and that also is a thought.

You could also say, it's an appearance, a perception, or an experience. But these are also thoughts.

In fact, it just is, period.

The realness that you described as a thoughtless state, is now just a part of your imagination.

Nothing is real without a thought, and likewise, nothing is unreal without a thought.

...

Thank you for your time my dear friend, I hope we have more discussions in the future ?

I'm sorry if I ever came to appear offensive even in the slightest, I never mean to be, it's an issue that I've only noticed weeks ago and I'm still working on. This discussion has been very interesting and helpful, I did benefit from the information you provided, it expanded my understanding.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

Nothing is real without a thought, and likewise, nothing is unreal without a thought.

Ahhh, therein lies the difference. For most of my life I was a highly intellectual person that was dominated by the thinking mode of being. I thought reality was determined  by my thoughts. I spent a lot of time exploring thoughts and quieting the mind to a still state. 

I found that the psycholigical self is highly oriented toward controlling the narrative and would absolutely love the statement “nothing is real without a thought”. For me, surrendering that belief was a very difficult process, yet it opened up new post-thinking realms and allowed integration between various modes of being, including thought, into a holistic system. For me, thoughts do not define what is real, rather thoughts appear in what is real and is one of many modes that shape what is real. My belief that nothing is real without a thought kept my mind in a thought-dominated mode in which the intellect was running the show and prevented deep development of other modes. 

One problem I found with the thinking mode trying to define what is real is that various modes of being become unbalanced and misaligned. For example, the intuitive, body or empathetic modes of being may be trying to communicate what is real - yet the intellect dominates and says "No, this is real. This is how it is". This can create all sorts of inbalances, neurosis and mind-body illnesses. I've found it much healthier to have all systems in balance and communicating together. Yet, the thinking mind was a bully and needed to be put in it's place.

Once I realized this and surrendered to it, it was a turning point and thoughts slowed down. I started to go a minute without a thought, then 10 minutes, then an hour. These are very different essences of being and they are real. I’d say I needed to have have 20min. stretches without a thought to start getting grounded in these thoughtless modes of being.

I can now walk through nature and experience nature thoughtless in a real state of being. I can communicate and connect with trees in a thoughtless mode. Sometimes my gf and I communicate through thoughtless being. It’s very real communication.  And thoughts are not necessary to confirm or define the experience as real. 

Thoughts are merely one mode of being, yet the generally dominate in most humans. It is the self’s #1 control tool to define what is real. One practice that helped me breakthrough into trans-thought realms was highly intense concentration meditations.

[Gabriel Antonio]

Therapy and/or psychedelics (not recommended for everyone).

Or simply google your question

[Truth Addict]

@Serotoninluv

So in conclusion, you're using the word "real" as an equivalent to "existing" or "being".

Okay, that's just you.

Most people don't see it that way, and when you're trying to help someone who is stuck in his mind, it would be very important to level-down to them and see things as they see.

We were discussing that telling information about how "real" traumas are (in the sense of most people's).

I think it's obvious that telling someone who thinks of realness as in the common sense, that something is real, would definitely make it look very real in their minds.

While the realness you're talking about is thought-independent, for others it isn't.

I think the foundation has been established, and now we understand the definitions of each other's words.

It was inspiring to hear that things like communicating with other beings is possible, I hope someday I could enter such states as you described.

Right now, my mind is messy and I think a lot, but I'm kind of aware of my thoughts, and I'm getting more aware everyday.

How long do you think it will take for me to get there? I mean not in years, but in practicing concentration meditation.

Or, how long did it take for you?

I'm really enjoying talking with you ??

[CreamCat]

Ego Death

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

So in conclusion, you're using the word "real" as an equivalent to "existing" or "being".

Okay, that's just you.

Most people don't see it that way, and when you're trying to help someone who is stuck in his mind, it would be very important to level-down to them and see things as they see.

I think we are getting into word semantics here. 

Suppose a body is experiencing extreme anxiety and there are no thoughts defining it as "anxiety". You would say that the body is experiencing "beingness" of anxiety, but that isn't real because the person isn't validating it as real by thinking "this is real anxiety". To me, that is just semantics. My body has experienced panic and doesn't need thoughts to chime in to say "This is panic the body is experiencing". The body is well aware of that and doesn't need thoughts to confirm it. Also, contracting only within thought separates the intellect mode from other modes. This can contribute to all sorts of neurosis. The body may be communicating anxiety through it's language and the mind may over-ride that and say "No, this is good I am not anxious" or "I'm only anxious because I'm nervous about this being good". Or the intuitive mode may communicate "Do not do this" in it's own language and the intellect may rationalize it away and think "No, I want to do this because blah blah blah". This creates separation between internal modes of communication and internal conflict. This contributes to many forms of neuroses. These mode languages are not separate they are integrated. By saying the intellect determines what is "real" and other modes are "being" creates separation and gives the intellect higher standing than it actually has. It is essentially saying that thoughts are judges and determine what is real. Yet perhaps the judge is an integrated system that includes the intellect, yet is not limited to the intellect. Plus, brain scanning can now identify a person's thought before they think it. How can thoughts be the judge of what is real if that decision occurred before the thought? . . . Imagine a play in which all the characters act out a story on stage. The play is over and the stage is empty. Then some guy from the audience steps on stage and takes a bow and takes all the credit for the play? Wouldn't that seem odd? To understand the nature of the play, why focus on the guy from the audience who took a bow? I would go to the actual factors of the play: The actors, the producers, the lighting crew, the directors, the costume designers. The guy from the audience taking a bow is a huge distraction. It what comes prior to that which is important in determining the play.

I'm not saying thinking is irrelevant. I think it's super important. I'd say what you describe is a really important key. Awareness of thoughts is a major step forward. For many, that may be all that is needed for release and healing. Being able to tap into awareness and simply observe the thinking mind is incredibly powerful. Many people have elaborate intellectual defense mechanisms. Revealing those defenses/blocks can release and open up a person. It can free a person. Yet for some, it's insufficient. One could gain this detached awareness of thoughts, yet various impulses from energetic, empathetic, intellectual and intuitive centers may still arise. For example, in my own experience I had some childhood issues that affected my relationships in life. For example, I often attracted hyper-critical girlfriends and bosses, which created conflict that I internalized. I went through years of therapy, support groups, readings, meditations, retreats. I knew the theory. I was aware of the thoughts. I completely understood the thoughts were irrational and I spent a lot of time letting go of thoughts and trying to introduce new positive thoughts. It helped somewhat, yet I continued to attract the same people and get involved in the same form of abusive relationships. I understood intellectually why, yet it still happened. I would seek more and more intellectual answers. More theory, more observing my thoughts, more trying to let go of thoughts and create new thoughts. Trying to figure it out intellectually. It wasn't until I realized that the intellect is only one component and it was dominating. There were other modes trying to communicate with me. These are different languages. Then I became open to nonverbal, nonthinking modalities, such as yoga and shamanic breathing. One of my biggest breakthroughs was with shamanic breathing. No thinking was involved. I went into nonverbal, non-thinking areas with powerful lessons and release. For example years of body memory, connections to dimensions I never new existed. This lasted about 20 minutes without a thought, yet lots of nonverbal information and knowledge was present. Afterwards, the thought guy didn't jump in and say "OK, here is the deal. Here is just what happened and what it means. Now I'm going to tell you what was real and what was unreal". Compared to the power of these other modes, that thought guy is a punk, he is a wimp.  

The thinking mind is a tool, yet just one tool and it isn't even a powerful tool. Imagine having 10 magic wands. The thought wand can do some magic, yet it often screws things up and causes problems. There are nine other magic wands with so much power. One property of the thought wand is it wants the user to think it is the only wand. That it is the strongest wand. That is the wand that determines what is real. It wants the user to only use the thought wand. If a being only uses the thought wand, of course the user will think what is real is determined by the thought wand, because that is the only wand the user is using! Once the user realizes other wands exist and starts using them, the thought wand will have a hissy fit. 

3 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Right now, my mind is messy and I think a lot, but I'm kind of aware of my thoughts, and I'm getting more aware everyday.

How long do you think it will take for me to get there? I mean not in years, but in practicing concentration meditation.

Or, how long did it take for you?

I'm really enjoying talking with you ??

I was immersed in intellectualism as a scientist for about 24 years. I would have glimpses of other realms through meditation, travel etc. Yet every non-intellectual realm / experience got contextualized by my intellect. My intellect wanted to decide what it meant. I always brought everything back into the intellectual realm to decide what it meant. This limited me. I was aware of thoughts, yet unaware of how my attachment to the intellectual realm was limiting me. I just didn't know what else was out there. 

I'd say one of my big breakthroughs was a conversation I had on this fourm with Leo when I first joined the forum 1.5 years ago. I was debating Leo about what is intelligence. To me, intelligence was thoughts, it was intellect. Other stuff like emotions was just feelings - states of being, yet not intelligence. I was very good with intellectual debates and I would crush people that had irrational thinking or "woo woo" beliefs. I out-intellectualized religious people and airy-fairy paranormal people. I was very good at keeping the conversation in the intellectual domain. Yet, there was something different about Leo. He went into post-intellectual zones that I was unfamiliar with. He was quite grounded and wouldn't let me pull him into a logical debate. In particular, I was very attached to the thought that intelligence is thought. I am intelligent because of how I think. The one thing I remember Leo pushing me on was "And where do those intelligent thoughts arise from? What is the source of those thoughts?". I tried to dismiss those questions as irrelevant, yet I sensed Leo had something I didn't have. He didn't need to convince me or himself of anything. He just had this sense of knowing. Then, I couldn't get that damn question out of my mind. It kept arising "Where do my thoughts arise from?". While I was driving. In the shower, as I tried to sleep, while meditating. I kept trying to let it go and couldn't. It was like some other mode of being was trying to call me. 

So I became determine to find the source of thoughts. I would sit and meditate for that first thought to appear. I was like a cat waiting for the mouse to exit the cupboard and then I would pounce on it. So there would be a moment of silence and I paid intense attention. I was determined to see where that next thought came from. Then a funny thing happened. No thought appeared. For years I tried to quiet and stop thoughts, now I wanted to think and no thought would arise. After a minute or so of no thoughts, I would start thinking "What's going on? How come I am not thinking? Maybe I am doing something wrong.". Then I realized "Those are thoughts!!!! Crap!!! I missed it!!! How could I have missed it? Maybe I was expecting another type of thought". So I returned to wait for the next thought. This time I was ready. I was twice as determined to watch the first thought appear. I became even more focused. Bring it on!!!! This time 2-3 minutes passed without a thought. It was intense. Then my mind was getting tired. It's like my mind ran out of gas and a thought sneaked through. That damn mouse running around and I missed where it came from again. I fell asleep on the job and was too tired to go into watchguard mode again. I never did find the source of those thoughts, yet I did realize that I am not the author of my thoughts. They appear from a mysterious place. From the ether. The other big revelation for me was that I experienced several minutes without a thought. I had never gone more than a second or two after years of trying. Then, when I actually want to think - I couldn't. . . 

 

[Shadowraix]

Trauma is interesting.

You can have a traumatic experience as a baby, have no memory of it, but still go through the changes caused by that trauma.

The body remembers even when the conscious mind does not. Which makes it all the more difficult to locate trauma at times.

Locating trauma requires great awareness to your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings to trace it back to potential events.

Drugs do help with this. As an example, in high school I had a very pessimistic outlook and loathed self-love. I spent all my time loving other people, but I found myself giving love, but I never truly took in the love that was given to me. I reflected it like a mirror. I was completely unaware I was causing my own deprivation of love as well as denying any gifts of love. It wasn't until I took MDMA that this realization hit me like a train. As well as the cause deriving from not enough consistent love from my parents/family and it being so disjointed I always had my dependent love sources taken away from me. Receiving love became an hole for suffering I avoided. Just the mere act of finally spotlighting the trauma and see its traces was enough to send me into tears of joy, emotions to this day could bring me to tears if I recall them.

It was only then, by understanding another aspect of myself, that I was able to begin working on transcending that trauma, It is hard because it goes deeper than memories but it translates to an actual change of response to certain things and when that thing triggers such emotional reactions, people don't want to deal with it head on which can lead to various issues like identity to trauma for a sense of control or constant avoidance.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Shadowraix

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluvreally appreciate this share ! ♥️

Would you agree the emotions or anxiety etc which do not stem directly from thought are still self thought in the form of deep rooted beliefs (related to a trauma)? 

Also something I’ve experienced pretty recently is this emotional purging where I’d feel like I need to throw up or gag and that body reflex is quite liberating  

I think I’ll get back into shamanic breathing

[Forestluv]

43 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Trauma is interesting.

You can have a traumatic experience as a baby, have no memory of it, but still go through the changes caused by that trauma.

The body remembers even when the conscious mind does not. Which makes it all the more difficult to locate trauma at times.

Locating trauma requires great awareness to your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings to trace it back to potential events.

Thanks for pointing this out. One example in my life has to do with physical affection and intimacy. My parents tell me even as an infant and small child, I did not like being held and touched affectionately. All babies can be fussy, yet my parents tell me I always struggled to away from being held and never relaxed into it. So they would often leave me alone in a seat or crib. Yet, they weren't neglecting me. As I grew older, I still had this trait. I would date gals that I really liked and was attracted to, yet when they tried to hold my hand or snuggle I felt really uncomfortable and a desire to push away. Yet I also liked them and wanted to get closer. It's really rare for me to be comfortable and enjoy physical affection. I've probably dated over 30 women in my life that I really liked, yet was only comfortable with affection with three women. It became a real issue in many of my relationships. I've had partners in which I had to sleep in a separate bed. I really liked them and wanted to be close, yet I was so uncomfortable with the close physical contact.  At times I'd say "That's just how I am". Other times, I'd try to figure out why. Do I have a fear of intimacy? Of rejection? Of abandonment? Was there a traumatic event? I just can't locate it. I did therapy and worked through my thought process. I don't think I've ever had a serious traumatic event or abuse. I have no memories of anything that might be causing this. I have no thoughts related to this. I can go on a couple dates with someone I really like and all my thoughts are about how cool she is and how much I want to be with her. I'm excited thinking about spending time with her, I have thoughts and desires of physical intimacy with her. And then we are out on a date and she puts her arm around mine and then whammo!!! A flood of repulsion flows through my body and I'm like "Noooo, wtf??!!". 

Perhaps there was some event I can't remember or perhaps it is something I inherited epigenetically from my parents. Yet, I can't think my way out of it. There is some sort of "memory" within me. A sort of "existential memory" perhaps. I've never tried MDMA and I'm curious about trying it. When you took MDMA, did you have the intention of resolving your issue? Or did it just arise and spontaneously work itself out?

41 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Serotoninluv

Would you agree the emotions or anxiety etc which do not stem directly from thought are still self thought in the form of deep rooted beliefs (related to a trauma)? 

Yea. Doesn't it seem like there can be something beneath the surface of conscious thoughts that is stimulating thought impulses? Perhaps there are deep rooted "beliefs", yet they may be different forms of "beliefs" and not really thought beliefs - yet may give rise to certain feelings and thoughts. I've some people say most of our emotions, thoughts and beliefs are subconscious sources. From one perspective, this is dis-empowering because one could throw up their hands and say "See, it's just how I am - I can't do anything about it". From another perspective it is very empowering because it open up new avenues to explore one's own subconscious and raise their subconscious to being conscious. This would be a form of consciousness expansion becoming aware of one's own subconscious.

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluvfascinating. Have you been able to work through the contact intimacy problem? Have you tried creating a few beliefs surrounding your response to better dive into it? 

Ive heard that everyone experiences trauma growing up regardless of the severity of an event. And that possibly more severe an event resulting in trauma, the more easily someone can learn to understand and overcome the body sensations. 

33 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Doesn't it seem like there can be something beneath the surface of conscious thoughts that is stimulating thought impulses? Perhaps there are deep rooted "beliefs", yet they may be different forms of "beliefs" and not really thought beliefs - yet may give rise to certain feelings and thoughts. I've some people say most of our emotions, thoughts and beliefs are subconscious sources. From one perspective, this is dis-empowering because one could throw up their hands and say "See, it's just how I am - I can't do anything about it". From another perspective it is very empowering because it open up new avenues to explore one's own subconscious and raise their subconscious to being conscious. This would be a form of consciousness expansion becoming aware of one's own subconscious.

Definitely I think with most triggered emotional states it is very helpful to be well tuned into the body. This has brought me to many realizations of unconscious responses. I think it’s much better to hold an empowering perspective relative to ourselves until it’s realized the subconscious is a result of being identified with the body/mind 

[Shadowraix]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

When you took MDMA, did you have the intention of resolving your issue? Or did it just arise and spontaneously work itself out?

It arised spontaneously. I've always been a person very fascinated experimenting with drugs to explore different experiences. So my first time was at home with some online friends in a voice call and I just really wanted to know what mdma was like. It really brought up deep emotional sides of me I rarely acknowledged or repressed and it was through this is where I think I discovered the trauma. I didn't even know there was trauma or a problem to resolve. I convinced myself I was past all of the shit with my family as a child. Obviously not.

On another note, cady flipping, at least to me, feels like my brain is a ball of yarn and I am just unraveling the entire single string. great combo for learning about your own psychology and deeper insights, but the dosing can be finicky to get both substances to synergize.

[Truth Addict]

@Serotoninluv

I think you're complicating something that is really simple by over-theorising it.

We don't need to go into word semantics, or assume that we need to define every word.

We know that language is dependent on itself. Every word depends on the other in an infinite network. And every word is defined by not being another word, in infinitely complex and abstract ways.

That being said, when someone feels something, let's say anxiety, and they don't have any clue about what it is called or how to express it, they actually are experiencing the beingness of anxiety, which is a feeling in being.

I could believe that the feeling isn't real, it's very easy, although it might feel real to me, I could delude myself into thinking that it doesn't.

Delusion is a huge factor in humanity. And it runs very deep.

You might had already realised that this is a dream. Why are others so in ignorance about this fact? You'd say, because of their thinking and imagination.

I think the mistake here is that you have forgotten what it's like to be deluded. And therefore, it's hard for you to imagine how deluded people think. You're so high above that you forgot how it was down below.

Also another mistake, is that you automatically assume that every physical or mental illness or disorder is due to past traumas.

That is quite wrong, there are so many causes of diseases, both the mental and the physical, and while trauma can be one cause, it isn't everything.

So, let's say someone is feeling anxious, for no apparent reason. You are assuming that it must be some old trauma. But no, they could have had it genetically, either inherited or mutated, or they could have had it through learning and discipline, or something else.

It sure would be stored in the mind-body, but that doesn't mean it's due to trauma.

Bringing awareness to it is a great solution, but it isn't everything. Sometimes it can be enough, and some other times it can't. Some diseases require medical or surgical treatment, whatever their causes might be.

Awareness is curative to the diseases that are caused by lack of awareness (can be traumas or something else), or that's what I believe.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Nahm]

I good inquiry might be why is the coming and going of anger easier to liberate (the triggers, etc), than the seemingly chronic or everpresence of, “anxiety”? 

[moon777light]

read the book "The body keeps the score", written by a professional whose daily job is to heal traumas. its a "i need to read as much pages as possible because i cant put it down its so good" type of book. 

Also check out Dr. Nicole Lapera on instagram "the.holistic.psychologist"

very good stuff.

[Sunny J Gupta]

@Annoynymous I can tell you from first hand experience, shamanic breathing really does work. But it seems too powerful for me right now. So I am grounding myself more right now with more balancing techniques like Hatha and Isha yoga. 

[martin_malin]

I strongly recommend reading The Revolutionary Trauma Release Process: Transcend Your Toughest Times by David Berceli. He says that we store trauma in our psoas muscles. I've been doing the release exercices for two weeks and it seems to be working. 
 

 

[Forestluv]

On 3/16/2019 at 4:25 AM, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

That being said, when someone feels something, let's say anxiety, and they don't have any clue about what it is called or how to express it, they actually are experiencing the beingness of anxiety, which is a feeling in being.

I could believe that the feeling isn't real, it's very easy, although it might feel real to me, I could delude myself into thinking that it doesn't.

I think you are giving too much weight to the intellect. I see being as one integrated system, including the intellect. Yet if I had to separate the modes of being, I would give roughly equal weight to each mode - empathetic, emotional, intuitive, intellectual etc. However, I think most personality constructs identify most strongly with the intellectual mode, followed by the emotional mode.

I would say thoughts and feelings are integrated. When the intellect and emotional modes are at odds, mind-conflict tensions and neurosis can arise. It seems like your intellect wants to be in charge and wants to run the show. Nothing wrong with that, yet it doesn't need to be that way.

There have been studies showing how the intellect can influence the body. For example, thinking of positive experiences in stressful environments can reduce stress hormone levels. Yet there are limits. if a body is being burned alive in a fire, thinking it isn't real won't do much imo.

On 3/16/2019 at 4:25 AM, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

You might had already realised that this is a dream. Why are others so in ignorance about this fact? You'd say, because of their thinking and imagination.

As I've said many times, I think beingness is an integration of many modes of being - including the thinking intellect. So I would say most beings are in ignorance of the dream realization due to dynamics within the intellectual (thinking), emotional (feeling), empathetic modes etc. Becoming aware of the delusions of the intellect is the first level. In consciousness work, nearly every human body first has awakenings within the intellectual system because this is the system most identified with. Many will stop here. Once the intellect is transcended, the next level of exploration is generally within the emotional modes of being, which in part includes experiences. Imo, this is much more advanced. Most mind-bodies will want to stay immersed exploring the intellectual mode, which is of no surprise since they identify most strongly with the intellectual mode. I'd estimate only about 2% of conscious seekers that have mostly transcended the intellectual mode have also transcended the emotion/heart mode. A good example would be Ken Wilber.

On 3/16/2019 at 4:25 AM, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

I think the mistake here is that you have forgotten what it's like to be deluded. And therefore, it's hard for you to imagine how deluded people think. You're so high above that you forgot how it was down below.

As a minor point of clarity: rather than saying I am at a high level - I think it would be more accurate to say that the self construct in my mind body has dissolved to a great degree. I'd estimate about 70% or so. The personality still re-appears and there are delusions - especially when interacting with other personalities. Self dissolution can be both beneficial and problematic when trying to relate to other beings without immersion in the self. As you said, sometimes I see someone immersed in a common personality dynamic and I have to think back and remember what that was like. So at the personal level, I think you are right. There are times when there is a disconnect - I am viewing things at a trans-personal level, while they are at a personal level. For example, I often express observations that are completely impersonal that people take personally. For example, I may express an observation of an insecurity dynamic occurring in someone. This would be no different than expressing an observation that an ant is crawling on their arm. Yet often humans will take the insecurity observation personally and get all defensive. I have to think back when I used to do that. These days, that only happens in my mind-body about once a month.

On 3/16/2019 at 4:25 AM, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

Also another mistake, is that you automatically assume that every physical or mental illness or disorder is due to past traumas.

That is quite wrong, there are so many causes of diseases, both the mental and the physical, and while trauma can be one cause, it isn't everything.

I don't believe every physical or mental illness or disorder is due to past traumas. Yet I do think past traumas are one variable that contributes to many mental/physical disorders.

This gets into some complex integration of the timeline, the Now, the individual mind-body and the collective mind-body. I don't think one can separate each of those components. Can something arise independent of one of those features? Perhaps, yet that gets into some deep metaphyscial realms that go beyond the intellect.

On 3/16/2019 at 4:25 AM, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

So, let's say someone is feeling anxious, for no apparent reason. You are assuming that it must be some old trauma. But no, they could have had it genetically, either inherited or mutated, or they could have had it through learning and discipline, or something else.

It sure would be stored in the mind-body, but that doesn't mean it's due to trauma.

Here, I think we need to be careful with a phrase like "no apparent reason". Quite often something arises. To the human, it may seem like "no apparent reason", yet that might just mean we are not aware of underlying mechanics that give rise to that appearance.

Again, I'm saying trauma is one variable in an integrated system. There can be many variables. For some conditions certain variables are huge risk factors, for other conditions each variable is a minor risk factor. For example, a mutant allele for the Huntington gene will lead to a neurological disease. That is the only variable. If a mind-body has this mutant allele, there is a 100% chance they will have the disease. There has never been an exception. In contrast, we know of about 40 variables that contribute Schizophrenia. Each variable only slightly increases the chance of schizophrenia by about 1-10%. Some mental conditions involve few variables, others are complex. Disorders like OCD, ADD, anxiety disorder, PTSD are complex and have many variables. 

On 3/16/2019 at 4:25 AM, Truth Addict said:

@Serotoninluv

Bringing awareness to it is a great solution, but it isn't everything. Sometimes it can be enough, and some other times it can't. Some diseases require medical or surgical treatment, whatever their causes might be.

Awareness is curative to the diseases that are caused by lack of awareness (can be traumas or something else), or that's what I believe.

I agree here. There are physical conditions in which awareness doesn't help - at least not at our current understanding. For example, someone who has suffered a spinal cord injury and becomes paralyzed. Medical stem cell treatment can restore some function. Yet, awareness and meditation has no effect in curing paralysis - maybe in the 100-200 years it will. Other conditions, like neuroses and chronic headaches can be often be cured through awareness, meditation and self healing visualizations. Yet it's not either / or. Consider something like PTSD - I think this is a case where a combination of medical and awareness treatment is beneficial. Awareness of underlying psychological dynamics can release. Yet as I mentioned, PTSD is also a brain injury. The genetic architecture in the brain is restructured. At this point, it doesn't look like awareness can reverse the physical alterations. I think it has potential to do so, yet this is some VERY high level awareness in which awareness is entering the brain and physically altering the chemical properties of specific target DNA sequences. This is a higher level than Deepak Chopra. I've caught glimpses of this potential, yet I'd say we are at least 100 years away from this level of awareness therapy.

[Truth Addict]

@Serotoninluv

Thank you so much for the input.

I agree completely ?

[OrpheusNovum]

One thing I've heard that has been useful is that energy of motion can help release trauma from memory and integrate it. Dynamic meditation, as others have said, is fantastic. It's also worth pursuing beauty, which always makes me love and appreciate the pain for what it is, and what's made possible as a result of it.

"A man who has been through bitter experiences and travelled far enjoys even his sufferings after a time."

-Homer

I like to imagine I'm The Flash, vibrating my cells to hypermetabolize a poison or a tranquilizer. Magical thinking is also really great, and you can end up creating new art to boot, so I love this method.

Sometimes just to keep it ridiculous I'll grasp my hands together in front of me and shake vigorously while humming or singing. It was a theater exercise that still makes me laugh really hard. Depending upon your childhood blueprint, you may repress your joy as well as your traumas. For example, if you find it difficult to laugh in a funny movie you can be sure you're repressing joy.

Edited March 21, 2019 by OrpheusNovum