Decisive vs accommodating with girls

[Spiral]

Let's you have a movie night set with a girl, you tell her the movie, the time and she is fine that.

A few days later she changes her mind about what time or movie you are going to watch,let's say you don't really care if its at 20:00 or 21:00 for instance.

Similar examples can be the restaurant we are going to or whatever. Some people have the strong believe that you should't give in and be decisive. Others believe  that you should be authentic and therefor be accommodating whenever it seems reasonable. 

Should you be accommodating?

Edited March 8, 2019 by Spiral

[Emerald]

If I were in the guy's position, I'd frame it as a question first. 

So, you could ask, "Hey do you like sushi?" And if she says yes, then invite her to a specific place that has sushi you want to take her to. Or if she says no, then ask her what her favorite kind of food is. Then invite her to a specific place that has that type of food. 

Same situations with movies but with genres. Ask, "Hey do you like horror movies?" If she says yes, invite her to a specific horror movie. If she says no, ask her her favorite movie genre and invite her to a specific movie in that genre.

If she tries to change plans, then you can be flexible and give her another option. Chances are, if she understands the point of a date, she won't fight you on it. But if she does challenge you on it, just give other options.

[flowboy]

On 3/8/2019 at 4:32 PM, Spiral said:

Should you be accommodating?

It comes down to what you authentically are willing to do for a girl that's not too important to you (yet)

This changing plans stuff is a test to see whether you have boundaries. So, make sure you give off the vibe that you would be totally cool with cancelling the date if she becomes too much trouble.

Then be as accommodating as authentically makes sense for you.

 

This showing that you have boundaries while being accommodating, can be achieved by adding a condition to your sentences.

Real life example: I had a date last Thursday. She was supposed to show up at 9. But then she had to help her roommate. And then she broke her bike or something. Since she was very apologetic about it, I said every time: "Don't worry about it, just come over if you can make it before 11"

"Should I still come? I fixed my bike but now my phone's dying"

> "If you can make it before 11".

Truth is I wouldn't have cared if she was 4 hours late and came over and fucked me at 1AM.

But I needed to show that I had boundaries. While still being reasonably accommodating.

Condition can be anything.

• If you wear something nice so we match
• If you promise to behave
• If you bring a bottle opener
• If you promise not to rob me
• If you make sure you're fresh and not still stoned from your party

All the above I have used. Come to think of it, I use this stuff a lot

 

[JohnnyBravo]

@Spiral

Without over-thinking these things, sometimes this is just an 'excuse' to see what you prefer in life.

If YOU really want to see it at 8pm, say so.

If YOU don't mind, tell her you don't mind.

But don't make the mistake of trying to do XYZ to get her to like you, or to show her you are a guy with boundaries, or put on a façade of being a decisive person or whatever. Childish. This is the behaviour of a slimy used-car salesman or Catholic priest that secretly desires an aggressive rape. Do not do something or act a certain way because you calculate a response from the other that is favourable. Act from your centre, throw out all these theories, and you will be right enough.

The way to be honest is to, well, practise being honest.

If it were me, I would text her back, "I don't mind what time. Actually I am not bothered about the movie, I just want an excuse to see you, so whatever we do or whatever time tomorrow doesn't bother me."

I am not even in this situation, and me writing that feels honest.

Do not, please, DO NOT play the pickup game or trying-to-get-her-to-like-you-and-respect-you game. This is manipulation. This is not relationship building, and it is not honesty.

The moment YOU begin acting in an impure way, that will begin to trickle into your 'container' or relationship, and don't be surprised if she begins to act in impure ways. Impure by this I mean something not fully in alignment with yourself.

[flowboy]

11 hours ago, JohnnyBravo said:

I don't mind what time. Actually I am not bothered about the movie, I just want an excuse to see you, so whatever we do or whatever time tomorrow doesn't bother me.

Honest, but way too needy. There is some etiquette to the dating game, that you have to respect at least in the beginning. Good way to scare her off, unless she thinks you're a rockstar already.

Edited March 13, 2019 by flowboy

[Forestluv]

@Spiral Like you and others have said, there is a balance between being accomadating and having personal boundaries. This balance varies among people. Personally, I don’t like a lot of planning and structured time. It feels restrictive to me. I feel more freedom being flexible and spontaneous, going with the flow. Yet my time is important as well. Some men and women have a similiar orientation and we get along great. Others play games with time and plans and it can be a control issue for them. 

For example, imagine I tell a gal I’m available to chat on the phone before 9pm because I do my nightime meditation at 9pm. If she calls at 8:55pm , then too bad. I’m not caving and cutting out my spiritual practice because she was inconsiderate. I’d tell her the next time I’m available to talk. 

On the flip side, imagine I’m traveling with a gal and we decide to stop for ice cream. When we get there, imagine she says “I’m actually feeling kinda cold and I don’t think ice cream would be good for me. Could we go for coffee instead?” I’d probably say sure. Now, if she did this type of thing half the time we were together, then it starts looking like a game she is playing and I’m not into that type of thing.

[flowboy]

So the ideal situation is not pretending to have boundaries, but ACTUALLY having them. This way you can just be honest.

You still need to express that, though, which I named examples of.

Honestly expressing your neediness will get you nowhere. Trust me I've tried.

[JohnnyBravo]

Neediness is not a set of words or behaviour.

Neediness is a vibe.

You are pressuring the other to like you back. Its very uncomfortable.

As to where have I articulated to pressure the other into liking you back?

[Salvijus]

all you need to know about dating.

@JohnnyBravo +1

Edited March 13, 2019 by Salvijus

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBravo said:

Neediness is a vibe.

Agree.

 

1 hour ago, JohnnyBravo said:

You are pressuring the other to like you back. Its very uncomfortable.

As to where have I articulated to pressure the other into liking you back?

@JohnnyBravo No this is not an accurate description of neediness. Neediness is placing too much importance on getting along. Needing the person (to react well, to be nice to you, to spend time, anything). Attachment to outcome.

If you say: "I don't care what we're doing, I just want an excuse to see you", this is a signal that seeing the girl has so much importance to you that you are willing to do an activity that you don't like. This implies that the source of fun for you is 0% the activity you're doing, and 100% the company of the girl. This in turn implies that if she doesn't give you validation you will be having zero fun. That puts too much pressure on the situation, and it will shift the responsibility on her to make you feel good. In that situation you are not a man who can make yourself feel good, you need her for that. Because you are so desperate to be with her that you neglect your own preferences.

This is not attractive. Not just to girls, to anyone. Try to imagine a buddy saying that line to you. Feels weird, right?

Hope that is more clear.

Edited March 13, 2019 by flowboy

[JohnnyBravo]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

Agree.

 

@JohnnyBravo .

.this is a signal that seeing the girl has so much importance to you that you are willing to do an activity that you don't like. This implies that the source of fun for you is 0% the activity you're doing, and 100% the company of the girl

 

Yes spot on! Thats precisely what I am communicating. You have interpreted me correctly.

It is 100% the person I choose to spend time with; the activity is an excuse.

Sorry to hear you dont believe 'this works.' 

If a friend of mine said that to me, I would probably be given a higher faith and conviction in the beauty of mankind. I would probably cry if I heard that; if the words were genuine (and from a friend why wouldnt they be?) i would be deeply touched.

I dont believe in "dating" or adjusting myself to a set of temporary behaviours just because I am in a dating paradigm. There is only one thing I believe in and that is interactions between people, seeing the other person as a human deserving of trust.

Should there be a fear arising in you about looking 'needy', and trepedation based on a distrust in what you feel is sincere, then these fears must be shattered at some stage.

The games need to stop.

The next 5-20 years there is going to be a massive dismantling of the false dating games men and women play. These games are cultural and based around power, or intense fear. The pickup community has been transparent on some power games men and women play when they are stuck in such thinking.

You look needy? Who cares.

Is it of a higher virtue to be insincere, for the compromise of trying to promote a cool image to a woman so she will like you?

The further you go into avoiding being needy, the needier you are exposed at being.

It is far more effective to speak truthfully in the moment (yes even over sending a text) than to calculate and shorten yourself based on the procedures of a dating code book, written by men with a severe lack of respect for the feminine and distrust of them.

The games need to stop. Intimacy is too deprived. A harmonious blending of man and woman is needed; such fears like this will have to be cast astray like a pair of old shoes.

[JohnnyBravo]

Alas, this will fall on deaf ears.

For the majority, you are correct. You have authority.

[flowboy]

20 minutes ago, JohnnyBravo said:

It is far more effective to speak truthfully in the moment (yes even over sending a text) than to calculate and shorten yourself based on the procedures of a dating code book, written by men with a severe lack of respect for the feminine and distrust of them.

Sure but that's neither here nor there. As I said before, ideally you develop yourself into a person who is authentically nonneedy and with healthy boundaries.

I sense a lot of judgment and pain that is coloring your view of the dating world. You seem to wish for a different world, where you can just be authentically needy and desperate, and still be attractive.

Well, regardless of whether that would be a good thing, I believe the OP was asking for advice that would work in this reality, not your imagined one.

[Shin]

If you feel she's testing you, decisive.

If you feel she's being sincere accomodate (only if really have time/energy).

Her voice says everything.

[JohnnyBravo]

9 hours ago, Shin said:

If you feel she's testing you, decisive.

If you feel she's being sincere accomodate (only if really have time/energy).

Her voice says everything.

Yes.

[Aeris]

On 13/03/2019 at 0:46 AM, JohnnyBravo said:

@Spiral

Without over-thinking these things, sometimes this is just an 'excuse' to see what you prefer in life.

If YOU really want to see it at 8pm, say so.

If YOU don't mind, tell her you don't mind.

But don't make the mistake of trying to do XYZ to get her to like you, or to show her you are a guy with boundaries, or put on a façade of being a decisive person or whatever. Childish. This is the behaviour of a slimy used-car salesman or Catholic priest that secretly desires an aggressive rape. Do not do something or act a certain way because you calculate a response from the other that is favourable. Act from your centre, throw out all these theories, and you will be right enough.

The way to be honest is to, well, practise being honest.

If it were me, I would text her back, "I don't mind what time. Actually I am not bothered about the movie, I just want an excuse to see you, so whatever we do or whatever time tomorrow doesn't bother me."

I am not even in this situation, and me writing that feels honest.

Do not, please, DO NOT play the pickup game or trying-to-get-her-to-like-you-and-respect-you game. This is manipulation. This is not relationship building, and it is not honesty.

The moment YOU begin acting in an impure way, that will begin to trickle into your 'container' or relationship, and don't be surprised if she begins to act in impure ways. Impure by this I mean something not fully in alignment with yourself.

<3 honesty is key to all mastery

 

Only the hoe like to tcheat and they will pay the price

Edited March 16, 2019 by Aeris